Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

This isn't 8.1, this is the metro-theme of Start8. It's still far better than what Windows 8.1 brings though.

Fixed. Thanks for the catch. I hunted around and thought that site had the image. So I just grabbed it straight from the source. ( The one in the quote above will disappear eventually ). ...

This is like a sick, twisted April Fools Joke. Or some evil malware that is designed to drive the user insane.

Left-Click the Start Button and you get a gigantic kick in the nuts

( Image Source: Official Video )

Edited June 27, 2013 by CharlotteTheHarlot

[jaclaz]

But I'm surprised the infamous Denon cable isn't at the top of the hall of fame:

You shouldn' t be .

There are MUCH BETTER cables than the Denon :

the US $ 21,000 $14,049.75 new, $13,099.00 used for the Audioquest Everest say a lot :

http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-K2-Terminated-Speaker-Cable/dp/B000J36XR2

Reviews on bad books are also a good source of entertainment.

Yes, but there was a scandal some time ago about bad reviews being written by other competing writers that took a lot of fun out of it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/suwcharmananderson/2012/08/28/fake-reviews-amazons-rotten-core/

jaclaz

[HalloweenDocument12]

There are MUCH BETTER cables than the Denon :

Fascinating to flip the 1s upside down but they may be even more compressed by removing the tails, making it like the pipe character: |||||.

Yes, but there was a scandal some time ago about bad reviews being written by other competing writers that took a lot of fun out of it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/suwcharmananderson/2012/08/28/fake-reviews-amazons-rotten-core/

I've heard of that, and it makes sense. Some of the reviews are so well written that it's obvious the author is a professional writer.

[JorgeA]

I just read about an alternative operating system that's intended (eventually) to run programs written for Windows. If this project takes off, it could potentially become a refuge for those of us who can't or won't put up with the annoyances and dysfunctions of Windows 8 and beyond. I could even see an adventurous investor or donor seeing the public reaction to Win8 and thinking about putting some money into this.

Anybody here have heard of it? What do you think?

--JorgeA

Edited June 27, 2013 by JorgeA

[HalloweenDocument12]

ReactOS is based on Wine and has been around since the 90s. It hasn't accomplished enough to be taken seriously. It doesn't support .NET at all. Even that passage seems old and was probably written circa 2002 when .NET was new, which means they aren't taking documentation seriously. If developers are basically forced into dipping into this realm, they're probably best off working it out with Mono and/or winelib.

[jaclaz]

Fascinating to flip the 1s upside down but they may be even more compressed by removing the tails, making it like the pipe character: |||||.

Naah, you missed the orignal reference:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=21827&st=23

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?s=&showtopic=21827&view=findpost&p=148472

AND the image attached.

Yes, though actually the "1" characters sent are shaped more like this:

1

As you can see, there is a horizontal trait at the base, that allows for better alignment of the 1's within the electronic pipe and to create a sort of barrier to avoid that subsequent 1's "arrow-like" point may get wedged.

With characters like the ones you sketched transmitting 255's, i.e. 11111111, would cause problems.

Numbers like 85 or 170 never cause problems.

jaclaz

ones.bmp

[Aero7x64]

I Just tried Windows 8.1 preview. There is nothing really interesting in it. Full Windows Aero is not back, start menu is not back. Boot to desktop is there and start button without start menu is there and good thing is that Aero animations are back after all. Microsoft hasn't yet lost enough of money, so this is in line what to expect before Windows 9 when some real changes will more likely happen.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Aero7x64

[vinifera]

don't have high hopes from 8.1

nothing big in Client came, they did more things in server R2 than Client (w 8.1)

for client, what they tweaked the start panel, they added flag button

and some few tweaks to file manager (explorer) with virtual folders

some more small tweaks to this metro thingy and nothing more

its just overall a patch to RTM, its not even an SP1

therefore its dog s*** again

there was presentation on YT uploaded, 2 and half hours of bull s***, and only server got most attention

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

I just read about an alternative operating system that's intended (eventually) to run programs written for Windows. If this project takes off, it could potentially become a refuge for those of us who can't or won't put up with the annoyances and dysfunctions of Windows 8 and beyond. I could even see an adventurous investor or donor seeing the public reaction to Win8 and thinking about putting some money into this.

Anybody here have heard of it? What do you think?

ReactOS is based on Wine and has been around since the 90s. It hasn't accomplished enough to be taken seriously. It doesn't support .NET at all. Even that passage seems old and was probably written circa 2002 when .NET was new, which means they aren't taking documentation seriously. If developers are basically forced into dipping into this realm, they're probably best off working it out with Mono and/or winelib.

ReactOS, IIRC, has had a goal of being a cleanroom-style compatible clone of WinXP/2k3, carefully dodging the inevitable onslaught of legal attacks from MicroSharks. As the saying goes, this was never gonna be easy. As the target is end-users and not developers ( unless we count "legacy" x86 developer tools compiling native Windows apps on this team ) it will by definition be a niche group of fans. There is nothing to stop devs from compiling with winelib specifically but I would expect the bulk of ReactOS fans to be running "obsolete" native Windows programs. But with the coming "death" of WinXP and all that high-profile FUD that seen everywhere which makes Y2K pale in comparison, ( Y2K actually had some unknowns, but we certainly understand that the execution of WinXP just means Microsoft will stop patching up all the holes they made in the first place, and it will ironically serve to stabilize the WinXP codebase IMHO ), perhaps the WinXP end-of-life "apocalypse" will drum up some more interest. What it truly needs, ReactOS that is, is a deep-pocketed benefactor to get the thing rolling. I sure hope they are out there trying to secure funding to at least pay for the servers to store the project and some money for advertising. Maybe we can all help by mentioning it from time to time and adding links and images to taglines and such.

However, one big thing has changed since the beginning of this and similar projects and that is that a lot of people have shifted from seeking out a discrete new source of an OS ( ReactOS ) to virtualizing previous existing Microsoft Windows versions instead. As long as the user is somewhat competent and careful, they should be able to run whatever OS they prefer in perpetuity. My guess is that a combination of a fast flash-drive or SSD containing the OS ( or selection of OS's ) they feel like using, which can be wiped and reloaded from disc in the event of an infection makes really good sense. This scenario is good because you can make that particular instance of the OS completely expendable. If it has a problem just restore it. No need to run Anti-virus garbage either and no need to ever even worry about Windows updates ( as if there ever really were more than a couple of legitimate reasons anyway ).

The unforeseen problem with virtualization is that in almost conspiratorial fashion, it sure looks like Intel simply stopped pushing the performance bar higher in a Microsoft-authorized quest to work instead on power consumption for battery life ( even though PC's don't care about that, and many laptops spend their time plugged into the transformer ). It is really not in Microsoft's best interest for PC's to be powerful enough to virtualize or even emulate any software they desire ( and I suspect that government spy agencies will heartily agree ). So we are standing right at the point on consumer editions ( not the "e" Extreme releases ) where another jump in throughput, either higher frequency and/or more cores and/or better architecture and the virtualization experience would be equal to running native today. As it stands, virtualizing an older OS will lead to something being noticeably slower, probably game FPS and other things. With the right combination of SSD and CPU and RAM it can be very fast, but needs that final push. What I'm saying is that we are almost there, and they literally stopped all advancement in its tracks. Compounding the suspicious problem of an arbitrary frequency and core ceiling, Intel has also been playing games with leaving out VT-x on specific models of CPU in quasi-Microsoft fashion ( reserving next Direct-X for next OS, MSIE, etc ) to steer purchasers into certain CPUs, however from the latest articles I've seen, they appear to have included it across Haswell.

On the other hand, I personally I still use native installs for just about everything. If you have a bunch of HDDs ( and you should ), and a bunch of Motherboards/CPUs/RAM ( and you should get them and rescue them before they are all scrapped by fickle consumer MetroTards ), it is simple and fun to construct PCs at will and install a variety of operating systems on different HDDs and then just hook up the one you want to boot from ( or look into multi-booting which has proponents all over this forum ).

Either of these scenarios, virtualization or native completely mitigates dependence on Microsoft, Windows Update, Anti-virus and Malware propaganda, and other stuff. Unfortunately they both rely heavily on one thing - availability of drivers for later hardware on earlier operating systems. This is the ugly underbelly of the x86 universe, or more precisely the evil manifestation of planned obsolescence in the Microverse. The people can solve this by banding together with a movement to pressure OEM hardware manufacturers of everything from motherboards to printers to defy Microsoft and develop more generic device drivers that work in all versions of Windows. They should be asked politely at first ( because it is certainly in their best interest because it widens the potential customer pool ) but then pressured and even warned about not colluding with a known, convicted monopolist. This whole obsolete driver thing is the single point of failure that needs to be rectified IMHO.

On the subject of alternatives to the Microverse, today I saw this website mentioned somewhere ...

PRISM ⚡ Break

... a pretty good list ( well a good start anyway ) of proprietary versus free alternatives. Spread it around. Break the bonds of MicroSlavery.

EDIT: typos

Edited June 28, 2013 by CharlotteTheHarlot

[dencorso]

While ReactOS is still a long way from being usable instead of XP, it can be very important in helping keep XP itself usable. They've officially adopted Alter's UNIATA project, for instance, and heve been of great help in testing and debugging it. Now, IMO, ATA and chipset drivers are of paramount importance for keeping XP alive indefinetely, while they are available, any motherboard can be used. All other resources, video included, can be addon boards, which allow for the deliberate selection of compatible hardware.

[Tripredacus]

JFYI, we have a thread about ReactOS if anyone is interested.

[jaclaz]

JFYI, we have a thread about ReactOS if anyone is interested.

As a matter of fact that one is one among the many (pointless/lacking info) ones on it.

This one actually has some "contents" :

The real issue being that in the last 5 (five) years nothing much has changed .

jaclaz

[JorgeA]

Wow, I'm glad I asked about ReactOS -- there's a lot of well-informed folks in here.

I've added their website to my bookmarks and will be checking in periodically to see if the glacial pace of their development has speeded up. A substantial monetary contribution on my part will, unfortunately, have to wait until I win the lottery. And then I would want to go in together with someone who possessed the technical knowledge necessary to make sure that they were actually doing something real with the money and not just pocketing it.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

I Just tried Windows 8.1 preview. There is nothing really interesting in it. Full Windows Aero is not back, start menu is not back. Boot to desktop is there and start button without start menu is there and good thing is that Aero animations are back after all. Microsoft hasn't yet lost enough of money, so this is in line what to expect before Windows 9 when some real changes will more likely happen.

So it sounds like all the talk about Windows 8.1 was mostly hype and sloganeering. Thanks for letting us know.

LIke you said, they will need a bit more pain before they are persuaded to mend their ways...

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

However, one big thing has changed since the beginning of this and similar projects and that is that a lot of people have shifted from seeking out a discrete new source of an OS ( ReactOS ) to virtualizing previous existing Microsoft Windows versions instead. As long as the user is somewhat competent and careful, they should be able to run whatever OS they prefer in perpetuity. My guess is that a combination of a fast flash-drive or SSD containing the OS ( or selection of OS's ) they feel like using, which can be wiped and reloaded from disc in the event of an infection makes really good sense. This scenario is good because you can make that particular instance of the OS completely expendable. If it has a problem just restore it. No need to run Anti-virus garbage either and no need to ever even worry about Windows updates ( as if there ever really were more than a couple of legitimate reasons anyway ).

I've never used a VM, so I have no experience in this, but (possibly a bit OT) maybe you can address a conceptual question:

At some point, data downloaded/processed via the Internet (e-mail, websites, PDFs, etc.) will have to be stored permanently (otherwise we're just simulating work instead of actually working). Persumably this means storing it outside the VM. If the data thus downloaded or processed (and without malware scanning we don't necessarily know WHICH data is involved so that we can remove it) turns out to be infected with malware, then aren't we infecting the "real" machine anyway? OTOH, if the data is stored only within the VM and we wipe it out to start clean when the VM goes bonkers, then aren't we losing our work (which is the point of working on a computer)?

Maybe I don't understand the concept well enough, but it's always seemed to me that VMs -- like sandboxes -- are kind of pointless, at least from a security standpoint, because of these issues. You either save the stuff to permanent storage and thus you're vulnerable anyway, or else you don't save the stuff permanently and your work goes POOF when you need to start fresh.

Gentle, patient explanations befitting my abysmal ignorance will be appreciated.

--JorgeA

Edited June 28, 2013 by JorgeA