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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


JorgeA

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I can remember when games used to have tons of goodies in the package:

I can even remember when PC's and Software came with manuals ("real" books), I still have a DOS manual that came with the pre-installed DOS (and Windows 3.x) Compaq computer, which is actually very good, and that no "hyperlinked" help file can beat (not because of being hyperlinked help files instead of print on paper but because having been poorly written, and missing 2/3 to 3/4 of commands, sintaxes and anything besides very basic usage).

jaclaz

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Sounds like the good ole boys at Microsoft are sticking another dagger into themselves. Here is a quote from the article:

...Microsoft is sticking indie developers with the burden of being forced to find a publisher in order to sell their game.

Sure sounds a like a death from a thousand cuts.

bpalone

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Sure sounds a like a death from a thousand cuts.

To be fair, there is a portal for indipendent games (at least for the XBOX 360).

How it is managed:

http://xbox.create.msdn.com/en-US/home/about/how_it_works_review

is clear from the evident attention to details.

What can i say? :unsure:

Lorem ipsum dixit! :realmad: (and I do mean it! :yes: )

hiw-Review_3ProhibitedContent.png

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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I still play Civ1, too. I have a hard time ranking the best games I ever played but it is up there, probably top 5. My general experience is different, though. I tend to stockpile more good games over time. There just seems to be more in the past because I'm compressing decades. One thing I will say is that today's market is so incremental and saturated that it's not a good value to game all the time. Instead, it's better to drop in and out and buy the games that are retrospectively held in esteem. Doesn't work with MMOs, though, as, outside of WoW, those need to be played in the first 4-6 months of release. Even WoW is inaccessible to new players since circa 2010.

It's harder to find games with complex rulesets like Civ and Orion. The good games today are good for different reasons. I haven't played the recent Civs and their expansion packs, though. Sim City looks like a total mess in both basic execution and game mechanics.

To keep this kind of on topic, the problem with effectively raising prices on games is that there's so much more supply and incremental quality has gone down. The new equilibrium point is achieved via the purchase of used games. If game makers are to corner this market, it has to operate similar to a free market otherwise it will collapse. Perpetually charging $60 for old games is a pipe dream. The market won''t support it.

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Oh my God, the failtrain doesn't stop:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/06/16/why-oddworld-is-coming-to-every-platform-except-xbox/

There's no need to go through yet another laundry list of the Xbox One's potential problems, but there is one that's getting overlooked in favor of the larger issues of price and DRM. It's the way Microsoft MSFT +1.05% is

limiting indie game development on the Xbox One.

The primary case in point to demonstrate the issue is Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty from Oddworld Inhabitants. The game is coming to every platform from PS3 to PS4 to Wii U to PC to Mac to Linux, but not the Xbox 360 or Xbox One. Why? Because Microsoft is sticking indie developers with the burden of being forced to find a publisher in order to sell their game. This demand perplexes Oddworld boss Lorne Lanning who spoke to Eurogamer about his frustration with trying to work with Microsoft regarding the policy.

And:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-right-now-oddworld-new-n-tasty-isnt-coming-to-xbox-one-or-xbox-360

Microsoft's policy is in contrast to Sony's, which enables self-publishing across the PlayStation Network.

And:

http://www.neowin.net/news/xbox-one-to-ditch-xbox-live-arcade-and-xbox-live-indie-games-branding

Xbox One to ditch Xbox Live Arcade and Xbox Live Indie Games branding .. So what does this mean for independent game developers? Shacknews reports that, in a chat with Matt Booty, Microsoft's general manager of its Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, all game developers must have some kind of publishing deal, either with Microsoft or a third-party company, before their games can be released for the new console.

Wow, from XNA and Xbox Arcade to this?! Well, it's NuMicrosoft after all, so yea. What Microsoft surely needs are more mass p***-off decisions like these.

You can't make this stuff up even if you tried to. It's as if the Xbone is just a cover up for an insurance fraud.

Edited by Formfiller
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Irony explosion:

http://www.neowin.net/news/analyst-the-entire-future-of-the-xbox-business-is-in-question#comment-2239229

Everyone forgets the Sony rootkit on music CD's and the PSN hacking, exploding batteries. Sony has the most lobotomized fans.

Apple and Sony fans are very much like a cult, what we are seeing is 6 years of frustration from Sony fans. They are rabid dogs clinging to all the negative things they can when it comes to MS.

Thing is Sony is the company that is in deep financial problems, their insurance side of them is the only thing keeping them afloat.

It's sickening how Sony ALWAYS gets a pass, these brain dead zombies fans always let Sony get away with everything. Sony fans used to flip out that Live charges a fee for online play and now that Sony is doing it they just make excuses why that is ok because it's Sony.

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I disagree with the sentiment that "Sony gets away with everything". They've lost on pretty much every front over the course of a decade. There will always be fanboys but the market doesn't lie. Sony rightly received mass criticism for their handling of the rootkits, batteries, and PSN hacking.

But the way Sony is handling the PS4 thus far demonstrates that they're learning. Sony has lost much ground over the past 10 years and needs/needed a new strategy. We may be seeing it.

Microsoft would be afforded a similar courtesy with a similar turnaround. I don't think people really like Sony all that much; they just look good by comparison. They haven't been a lifestyle brand since the late-80s save for a resurgence with the Playstation brand that ended before the PS3 was released.

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Sony's out there since 1946. One can say anything about them, but one has to recognize they're resilient. Can that be said about MS? Perhaps... but it sure is not a given, and they're sure doing their best to kill their own goose that lays golden eggs.

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No kidding. The bits don't degrade.

But bits are also licensed, NOT sold.

What about revamping this not-so-old idea (that thank goodness never took hold)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexplay

They could make non copyable DVD's that only last - say - a week/2 weeks/1 month/3 months/6 months/1 year and a "gold edition" (for which you have to be a member of the "Premium XboX1 Club", you need to be introduced by at least two pre-existing members, make a solemn oath about never using an iPad and pay a nominal fee of 360 US$ /year) lasting 2 years.

For the most affectionate and smartest one, there is also the "Excellence Restricted Circle" which offers exactly the same as the above, but costs 720 US$/year, minimum 10 years :w00t: and you have remote assistance - at most two hours/year - and provides you with a T-shirt and a badge representing a very tiny "O" with an even tinier "x" in the middle, symbolizing at the same time how exclusive the circle is and the actual vote in roman numerals the MS guys give to the console in a scale from 0 to 10).

jaclaz

I remember something about that. Among other things I have been involved with bands and recording studios and labels. From time to time the "Mission Impossible" theory rears its ugly head and some ( not many ) artists I know think its the greatest thing since sliced bread bottled beer. Transporting this concept from the DVD or video arena ( where Hollywood really wants to make it happen ) to the music industry ( where only the bureaucrats really are interested ) never gets any traction because the actual artists understand that their customers are fickle and even vengeful. Witness the wicked backlash that wiped out Metallica after Lars set upon his fans that shared music. There was a civil war over Napster with some artists taking sides and others taking cover. :lol: The artists I know don't want to antagonize their fans and are truly interested in getting that first sale. The concept of used sales rarely comes up because truthfully, they themselves also are buying up used music, DVD's, vinyl albums, and yes, CD's at flea markets and from Amazon. NOTE: none of this is about counterfeit goods at all, even though the Thurrott lackeys keep hinting at it through strawmen arguments.

Anyway, what it's all about with this "flexplay" and similar notions is to make that final jump from private property you own to virtual intellectual property you don't own, and ideally this will itself later evolve into 100% pure Pay-Per-View. That is the Holy Grail to all media companies. They will trot out the arguments of starving artists, even though they are usually starving because of their ( record label ) own actions, but their goal is to continually enrich themselves with a never-ending stream of income. The evolution of the Internet finally into a useful distribution tool has brought this issue to the front again. The problem I think we all have is that even though people who question this paradigm are far more numerous than those fat cats sitting at the top, they have the lawyers and lobbyists and even as we speak they are constructing themselves a digital boomtown. That first big step was the DMCA and its descendants, but now they are eyeballing the brass gold ring. And judging by recent history it sure looks like the Congress and White House and Supreme Court over here are sufficiently bought and paid for to make this happen.

All we can do is keep fighting anyway and get the word out.

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It's not true that used games are identical to new. In many ways they degrade in the same fashion as cars. Used games are far more likely to have scratches and other forms of damage, which may make the game skip cutscenes or even render it unplayable. Packaging and inserts are likely to be damaged or missing. The center knob of the case is more likely to be broken, and the case in general is more likely to be in overall poor condition. The older the game, the more magnified the effect. Over time product is lost due to damage.

There's also the issue of the game simply having less overall value even with "identical bits" by the virtue of it disappearing from public consciousnesses or removal of features such as multiplayer, either by fiat or by de facto via abandonment of player base.

If game quality was up to par, we wouldn't be seeing a glut of $5 off used games mere days after first sale. While evil Gamestop may be flipping those games at near retail, the people trading them in are getting a fraction back. Gamers are panicking over a poor purchase and are willing to accept virtually anything back to minimize the sunk cost. If they were motivated to hold onto the game for more than a week or two, there wouldn't be a glut of supply. As it is, these first sale customers are receiving negative value by buying at $60 and selling at $20 a few days later. Also, this $20 is in store credit, so, wow, how bad can these games be when customers are willing to abandon them without even cash in hand?

All excellent points. I didn't feel I needed to go into it because I felt that the condition of these used items was another strawman that the Thurrott lackeys throw out to muddy up the waters. I think they use it as a self-distraction tool to avoid facing the real question of who the he!! do they think they are to set their sights on someone else's private property and what price they sell for. Your point about losing value over time is also a good one, the "window of opportunity" for interest to ( most ) gamers is short. Most importantly, you mention quality of games. Ruling out counterfeiting, just why are so many games being sold back? It's because in the opinions of these first sale purchasers, they suck! That really is the point they are missing, isn't it? Talk about scapegoating. But when GameStop sells a physical work later for some price less than full retail, just where does anyone get off concerning themselves with this? This is the closest thing to a free market to be found in the synthetic economy of software in the Microsoft sector of the PC and console universe.

I neglected to mention something important ( which you and everyone here certainly knows already ) ... None of this is about Steam ... It currently is about GameStop physical media. Don't worry though, they will certainly combine the two different cases into one muddled thought to further confuse the issue. Steam is in itself a product of the current environment. It is a solution solving the problems created by Microsoft and EA and all the many others along the way, and that is precisely why it exists and precisely why they hate it. Without consoles, and DRM, and high priced games, and especially the restrictions on using discs, typing in keys, answering questions, getting placed on SPAM lists, for all these reasons Steam can thrive. It is a drop-in turn-key solution, a virtual console that allows moderate gamers to not have to fiddle with hardware and software settings too much, in short, it lets them play their games. The fact that Microsoft and her fanboys have now developed "Steam-envy" ( credit ) speaks volumes. It's like home builders getting angry at modular homes.

It's really kind of ironic and sick at the same time. The industry created the problem of user confusion, apathy and disrespect in the first place, not trusting their customers, hitting them with DRM and hoops to jump through, then mega-merging of small game studios, killing many off, resulting in a Big Government Big Hollywood Big Entertainment cabal. Microsoft is deep in this too by butchering the Windows platform over time, screwing around with Direct-X compatibility, making the PC a moving target for developers. In fact I think they caused the biggest upheaval by even getting into consoles into the first place, through a conflict of interest by having both PC and Xbox under the same roof, and unsurprisingly one huge part ( PC ) gets stepped on by the other smaller money-losing part ( Xbox ). So, in the aftermath along comes Gabe with a pretty good fix for many gamers. Naturally, MicroZealots are green with envy.

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PlayStation 4 is destroying the Xbox One in Amazon customer poll ( TechSpot 2013-06-15 )

Previous results from the Amazon Ps4 vs Xboner poll on June 14, 2013 ...


94% Of Gamers Favor PS4 To Xbox One, According To Amazon Poll ( CinemaBlend 2013-06-13 )
Currently 21,501 to 1,240. :whistle:

Time to check in two days later on June 16, 2013 ...

Kb8vA84.jpg

Sony winning previously with 94.547%, now winning with 94.745%. You think Microsoft is going to notice this? :yes: You wanna bet they are in panic mode right about now? :yes: Will they do the right thing? :no:

I went back to check today and it appears to be gone now! Over at the TechSpot linked page above there is this tidbit ...

Update (6/17): It appears Amazon took down the poll, but not before visitors had a chance to take a screenshot of the results. As of late Sunday the numbers were equally one-sided with 38984 votes for the PS4 versus 2162 for the Xbox One.

Note that the numbers cited by the TechSpot author mirror the ones from my screencap. If anyone has anything newer or information on why they pulled the poll please post it!

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New Dvorak column just out. Seems to have done a 180 from the last one here ...

Almost forgot, John Dvorak inexplicably expressed similar crazy thoughts a few days ago ...

The NSA Is Mining Our Data. So What? ( John C. Dvorak PC Magazine 2013-06-12 )

... which astonishingly places him drinking from the same Kool-aid fountain as Ed MicroBott!

The real story in the NSA scandal is the collapse of journalism ( Ed Bott ZDNet 2013-06-08 )

How did mainstream media get the NSA PRISM story so hopelessly wrong? ( Ed Bott ZDNet 2013-06-15 )

... I wonder if he is reading this thread? Anyway, here is the latest ...

The NSA's Surveillance Will Devastate Commerce ( John C. Dvorak PC Magazine 2013-06-17 )

... and this one makes a brilliant point in light of all the recent breaking news ...

But we've been missing one important aspect of all this. These programs, all in the name of supposedly stopping terrorism, will severely hurt the American economy as foreign sales will challenge American products.

What foreign government, agency, or corporation in its right mind would buy Microsoft Office 360, for instance, if it suspects that every memo written will float up to the Microsoft/NSA cloud to be scrutinized by some "analyst" for unknown reasons. And Google Docs is no better.

What overseas id*** would use any of these services? Who would create a Facebook account? Who would use any American instant messaging system?

I gotta admit this hadn't even occurred to me yet. Maybe it is the sheer volume of news about data gathering and all the conflicting reporting, all the denials and rationalizations. But this has to be a serious consideration now, I mean really, given an actual choice, who would select a USA based cloud service, be it Microsoft Office 364 or any of the countless backup providers?

I'd expect to see some smart people overseas capitalizing on this eventually, marketing their services as spy-proof. It might even help to explain as clever posturing the stories mentioned upthread where Google and Twiiter are suggesting they are challenging the spying paradigm. This whole fiasco will likely be a huge boost to Kim DotCom and his new Mega. In fact, we can probably make sense of that story now when they shutdown Megaupload and confiscated all the storage. What are the odds they were just looking for warez and music? His lawyers are probably celebrating this spying news because of all the new angles it gives them for the eventual court case, if it ever even happens.

If I owned an American based company that operated storage or communications services I think I would be drinking heavily right about now. :yes:

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I gotta admit this hadn't even occurred to me yet.

:blink:

Remember when Orkut, then Facebook, first became hits among the young?

That's when I first though "those places will destroy privacy even if they don't actively nose into people's infos".

The only thing surprising about PRISM is its eventually actually getting in the news... unless, of course, it's all a smoke-screen hiding even bigger things...

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