Windows 9x/Me Security Thread

[JorgeA]

An update on Avast! 4.8 support for Windows 98 (SE).

 

I just renewed the free one-year license for my 98SE laptop last night and there were zero problems. Then it downloaded the current virus definition files. Good to go for another year.

 

--JorgeA

[Nomen]

An update on Avast! 4.8 support for Windows 98 (SE). I just renewed the free one-year license for my 98SE laptop last night and there were zero problems. Then it downloaded the current virus definition files. Good to go for another year. --JorgeA

Now if only there was malware circulating on the internet that actually runs on win-98 without crashing - there would actually be something you need protection from!

[JorgeA]

So, in your view, is Win98 actually more secure than current versions of Windows (XP/Vista/7/8)?

Note: I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm sincerely interested. I've heard it argued before that Win98 is safer, but am not convinced strongly enough to do without malware protection.

How do others feel about it?

--JorgeA

[jaclaz]

How do others feel about it?

Personally, quite comfortable .

Comeon , this is one of those topics you cannot touch without starting a flame war if you are looking for "popularity" you may want to start a poll, otherwise what you will get will be "anecdotal evidence", about people that is running Windows 9x without any form of antivirus and never got one, but you cannot base yourself on that, as you cannot know how "smart", "knowledgeable" and "attentive" the user is, it is well possible that his/her activities on the PC are "low risk" and that that is the reason for the apparent lack of security failures.

jaclaz

[lolnousernameforyou]

How do others feel about it?

Personally, quite comfortable .

Comeon , this is one of those topics you cannot touch without starting a flame war if you are looking for "popularity" you may want to start a poll, otherwise what you will get will be "anecdotal evidence", about people that is running Windows 9x without any form of antivirus and never got one, but you cannot base yourself on that, as you cannot know how "smart", "knowledgeable" and "attentive" the user is, it is well possible that his/her activities on the PC are "low risk" and that that is the reason for the apparent lack of security failures.

jaclaz

That is absolutely right really the "true" security of a computer goes down to the user.

Edited August 21, 2013 by lolnousernameforyou

[JorgeA]

All right, let me offer a scenario. Suppose that you have a Windows 98 machine sitting behind a hardware firewall. It also has installed the last version of (say) ZoneAlarm's software firewall that worked on Win98, plus up-to-date definitions for Avast 4.8.

Further (and perhaps crucially), let's say that, for the sake of getting as much functionality on the Web as you can for this machine, you're also running on it the last versions of Adobe Flash, Acrobat Reader, and Java that ran on Win98.

Lastly, suppose that you use this machine to visit only well-known news websites -- no sites of "dubious" themes, or even entertainment (TV/movies/celebrities) sites.

How likely would such a machine be to get infected, relative to a PC that had a current version of Windows and up-to-date applications? I guess that my biggest (though not my only) doubt has to do with the security of those old Flash and Java versions. (Anymore, it's hard to get much done on the Web without both of those.)

Let's leave aside the likelihood that many sites that use Flash and Java won't work with these old versions. In our scenario, you're limiting yourself to sites where they do work. How safe is your machine?

Curious,

--JorgeA

[MiKl]

All right, let me offer a scenario. Suppose that you have a Windows 98 machine sitting behind a hardware firewall. It also has installed the last version of (say) ZoneAlarm's software firewall that worked on Win98, plus up-to-date definitions for Avast 4.8.

Further (and perhaps crucially), let's say that, for the sake of getting as much functionality on the Web as you can for this machine, you're also running on it the last versions of Adobe Flash, Acrobat Reader, and Java that ran on Win98.

Well, for the web you should install NoScript (still supported, current version 2.6.7.1) and Adblock Plus (last version 1.3.10, but still usefull) in your browser !! (Or similar apps, of course)

I am visiting sometimes doubtful websites ;-) but with these apps running I never had a problem.

[lolnousernameforyou]

Well, for the web you should install NoScript (still supported, current version 2.6.7.1) and Adblock Plus (last version 1.3.10, but still usefull) in your browser !! (Or similar apps, of course)

I am visiting sometimes doubtful websites ;-) but with these apps running I never had a problem.

The latest versions of adblock or adblock plus work if your using opera 12.02. (kernel ex required)

[lolnousernameforyou]

How do others feel about it?

--JorgeA

I would still use virus data base since we dont know how a particular program would work on an old computer. (it would most likely fail but I would rather be safe than sorry)

[JorgeA]

How do others feel about it?

--JorgeA

I would still use virus data base since we dont know how a particular program would work on an old computer. (it would most likely fail but I would rather be safe than sorry)

Yeah, that's my sense of it too. But I do wonder -- some people say that Win98 is safe (or safer) because the bad guys aren't writing new malware for it anymore. But that leaves two questions remaining:

1. What about old malware for Win98 still floating around the 'Net?
2. What about Win98-compatible versions of Flash Player and Java -- does "modern malware" also work against those old versions? Or does the same principle of "security through obsolescence" apply to Flash and Java?

BTW, thanks to @MiKl re: NoScript. I didn't know that it still works on Win98-era browsers. Amazing! But suppose that you're not using NoScript: is a Win98 system safer, or less safe, or equally safe from those kinds of threats as a modern PC?

--JorgeA

Edited August 21, 2013 by JorgeA

[lolnousernameforyou]

is a Win98 system safer, or less safe, or equally safe from those kinds of threats as a modern PC?

--JorgeA

I would say equal since a big part of security goes down to the user like just today I pulled "120 VIRUSES" off my mothers computer which is running windows 7. This isn't the first time that happened to her the most she ever got was two years ago which was OVER 300 VIRUSES.

Edited August 22, 2013 by lolnousernameforyou

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

I would say equal since a big part of security goes down to the user like just today I pulled "120 VIRUSES" off my mothers computer which is running windows 7. This isn't the first time that happened to her the most she ever got was two years ago which was OVER 300 VIRUSES.

I have cleaned up a lot of Vista/7 systems myself. It is as bad or worse than the early XP years.

Despite these Vista/7 systems with full CPU consuming antivirus suites, and using standard non-admin accounts, and with automatic Windows Update, there is no end in sight.

How did her computer physically connect? Was there a router with working hardware firewall?

[lolnousernameforyou]

How did her computer physically connect? Was there a router with working hardware firewall?

It is connected wirelessly to a router by an usb antenna. She uses Norton but I used Malwarebytes to remove the viruses. (The firewall is a router firewall and windows 7 firewall)

Edited August 23, 2013 by lolnousernameforyou

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

How did her computer physically connect? Was there a router with working hardware firewall?

It is connected wirelessly to a router by an usb antenna. She uses Norton but I used Malware bytes to remove the viruses. (The firewall is a router firewall and windows 7 firewall)

Check the firmware settings that the router firewall is actually enabled and for manually opened ports. Or you can re-flash it or reset it and start over. Either way you need to drag a fine-toothed comb through the router settings. It helps to search the exact model in Google for administration tips. And make sure you disabled universal PnP on the router and also the service in Windows ( this is one way for router ports to be opened from software despite the router ). Oh yeah, make sure she is not using an Admin account.

The Windows firewalls are crap but better than nothing I guess. From an Admin account on her PC, check for exclusions ( these are easily added by software ).

P.S. Remember that if you remove Norton or McAfee ( in order to install something else ) to use their specific cleaners after the normal uninstall.

[lolnousernameforyou]

Check the firmware settings that the router firewall is actually enabled and for manually opened ports. Or you can re-flash it or reset it and start over. Either way you need to drag a fine-toothed comb through the router settings. It helps to search the exact model in Google for administration tips. And make sure you disabled universal PnP on the router and also the service in Windows ( this is one way for router ports to be opened from software despite the router ). Oh yeah, make sure she is not using an Admin account.

The Windows firewalls are crap but better than nothing I guess. From an Admin account on her PC, check for exclusions ( these are easily added by software ).

P.S. Remember that if you remove Norton or McAfee ( in order to install something else ) to use their specific cleaners after the normal uninstall.

Alright I will check the router setting when I get back from vacation.