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Ext HDD's greater than 137GB under Win ME


piikea

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If there is even a small possibility that an external USB disk will EVER be connected or booted to a system/OS that doesn't have larger than 128 Gb partition support you risk that you will get a correupted partition.

ALWAYS have a first partition (Primary, Active) below the LBA28 limit, to play safe.

jaclaz

Oh! Surely! I knew that both my PC's are LBA48-aware, and just didn't thought about possibility of connecting my HDD to some other PC, that is not. I'll consider repartitioning. Thank you for the advice.

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Oh! Surely! I knew that both my PC's are LBA48-aware, and just didn't thought about possibility of connecting my HDD to some other PC, that is not. I'll consider repartitioning. Thank you for the advice.

Good. :)

Now consider these:

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs_vs_fat.htm

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/partFAT32-c.html

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192322/en-us

Basically, and in a nutshell, the bigger you make a FAT (in this case FAT32) volume, the more wasted space and decrease of performance you will have.

Strangely enough XP has limited creation of FAT32 volumes to 32 Gb not ONLY to push NTFS. :whistle:

Mind you I'm not in ANY way :) trying to start (yet another) Religion war of the NTFS vs. FAT32 or Godzilla vs. King Kong type, we had enough of them, only you need be aware of the limitations of the FAT32 filesystem and be able to choose a partitioning scheme in an informed way.

jaclaz

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If you were able to substitute USBHUB20.SYS in windows (i. e.: windows didn't prevent you from doing it), It should be enough. But do check its version (by right-clicking on it, then going to "Properties", then "Version"), to make double sure you actually had success at substituting USBHUB20.SYS. If so, the occasional BSODs you're still experiencing may be related to other sources, but if the frequency of the BSODs is less, at least part of the problem is solved. :)

Yes, I renamed the existing one then added it & rechecked - it IS 5.0.2195.6891.

(idk if it matters but USBHUB.SYS is 4.90.3000.0).

Strangely the BSOD's don't occur right when the ext. HDD (or drives) are "disconnected" - only later, whenever it is I go to restart. Sometimes it will be the BSOD as attached here. Other times it will be one saying "disk write error" (idk if any "write errors" actually occurred or not).

post-274911-067327100 1288297110_thumb.j

I'm pretty sure the BSOD's are related to the 1TB ext HDD (required) changes since I'd been using my other ext. HDD and a Card Reader for several years w/o ever having a BSOD. No matter, it is a fairly "manageable" problem.

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I have read this thread, but I have not seen this. May be I missed something...

There is NOT only this thread in the world (or even on MSFN) ;).

If there is even a small possibility that an external USB disk will EVER be connected or booted to a system/OS that doesn't have larger than 128 Gb partition support you risk that you will get a correupted partition.

ALWAYS have a first partition (Primary, Active) below the LBA28 limit, to play safe.

jaclaz

The USB protocol is not affected by the 128GiB issue. So connecting an external USB Drive to an older BIOS will not cause corruption. More likely the older BIOS would not recognize USB Drives at all. Only if the Drive has the potential to be used without it's associated USB enclosure would there be any risk of corruption.

Using an arbitrary USB enclosure is another issue as some older Enclosures DID have a 128GiB limit. Using one of these could cause corruption regardless of how new the BIOS is or Windows Drivers used.

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OK. Here's my shortlist of possible problem candidates:

ACbHlpr     Adobe Reader / Acrobat Reader
CDR4VSD Roxio
CDRALVSD Roxio
CSHOOK Norton Clean Sweep
ELBYCDIO CloneCD
IPVNMON Visual IP InSight ?
NAVENG NAV
NAVEX15 NAV
RT ?
SAVRT NAV
SAVRTPEL NAV
SYMRDVXD NAV
SymTDI NAV

Check them to confirm they are bona fide. If they are and they were there before the problems began, then we can move on. They may have .386, .vxd, .pdr, .mpd or .sys as the extension. Check out first the two I marked with a question mark. Look at the properties tab, to find out the manufaturer (or the product) they come from. I think maybe the problem lies elsewhere, but do check them, just in case.

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OK. Here's my shortlist of possible problem candidates:

Yep they are all legit & on system before 2008.

IPVNMON = Visual Network Monitor

RT WINDOWS = REALTIME EXECUTIVE

Most NAV related tho' the 2 above I'm not sure what they are (exc. maybe VPN related & Real Player related "thing") but they been there.

They almost always occur after having had an ext HDD connected then dis-connected but usually not until I go to reboot. It has happened a few times going from 1 partition to another in Windows Explorer as well - in which case the BSOD is immediate. Neither scenario occurs every time so isn't reliably re-creatable....if that's even a word!

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OK. Here's my shortlist of possible problem candidates:

ACbHlpr     Adobe Reader / Acrobat Reader
CDR4VSD Roxio
CDRALVSD Roxio
CSHOOK Norton Clean Sweep
ELBYCDIO CloneCD
IPVNMON Visual IP InSight ?
NAVENG NAV
NAVEX15 NAV
RT ?
SAVRT NAV
SAVRTPEL NAV
SYMRDVXD NAV
SymTDI NAV

Without ANY evidence to backup my statement :ph34r: , which you then should take as a mere friendly advice from someone that has probably seen more problems on PC's than you, ANYTHING that contains "NAV" (as in Norton Anti Virus") or "Sym" (as in Symantec) or "Norton" (as in Norton ;)) should be removed first thing. :whistle:

Usually they are:

  • unneeded
  • bloatware
  • problem causing

The second step - with the same limits as the above - is to remove ANYTHING connected to ROXIO. :angel

Though they may or may not be the culprits, after having removed them you will have a faster, more responsive system.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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They almost always occur after having had an ext HDD connected then dis-connected but usually not until I go to reboot.

Your description reminds me of the issue described in KB284969. Are you stopping (using the Safely Remove Hardware, in the system tray) the removable media before actually disconnecting it? If not, do try it. In any case, explicitly flushing the removable drives before removal should help if the case is the one described in KB284969... and Mark Russinovich's

Sync does exactly that, so here's another thing to try.

If all that proves not to be enough, then you should apply these two updates to your system: KB273017 and KB290831 (in this order).

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Are you stopping (using the Safely Remove Hardware, in the system tray) the removable media before actually disconnecting it?

Yes & it behaves properly as if disconnection occurred correctly.

In any case, explicitly flushing the removable drives before removal should help if the case is the one described in KB284969... and Mark Russinovich's Sync does exactly that, so here's another thing to try.

This mentions Client: Windows XP or above & Server: Windows Server 2003 & higher.

If all that proves not to be enough, then you should apply these two updates to your system: KB273017 and KB290831 (in this order).

Holding off on these 2 updates for the moment.

BTW -

The latest BSOD showed: " error : 0D : 0068 : 000029EA " Which may or may not be the same or related to the VxD one.

To jaclaz - -

I'm no fan of NAV or Roxio either. My suspicion is WMP (which has some connection to Roxio but it also is in a Logitech [webcam] folder so I don't want to remove it completely) however, instead of those 2. Also I would have to completely uninstall NAV to get rid of everything that has nav in the filename - some 20 objects (dll's, .vxd, .sys, .exp).

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In any case, explicitly flushing the removable drives before removal should help if the case is the one described in KB284969... and Mark Russinovich's Sync does exactly that, so here's another thing to try.

This mentions Client: Windows XP or above & Server: Windows Server 2003 & higher.

Yeah. But the binary has not changed since 2006, and it used to say "works on all versions of Windows", so that's just the usual MS talk to steer you away from 9x/ME... :)

And if you run it, it says: "Sync 2.2: Disk Flusher for Windows 9x/Me/NT/2K/XP" :yes:

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  • 2 weeks later...

The BSOD's are fewer these days so am I leaving well enough alone for now. I was using Ghost 2003 w/ my other ext HDD (a WD 80GB) with a so-called "Universal USB 2.0" drivers set on floppy's which does enable Ghost to recognize it but this new 1TB ext HDD isn't. Looking into possible solutions where I originally got the floppy's many years ago but figured I'd ask here in case someone has an easy answer!

As rloew mentioned in an earlier reply about an enclosure's possible limitations - idk all the specs on this one but it's an EAGLE E series 3.5" sata to usb 2.0 external hdd enclosure (supposed to "work up to 1TB").

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I tried my USB HDD with my Windows 98 PC and got negative result. It was detected properly, however when I started to copy some files from my USB flash stick to the drive, I've got a few read errors, and then my USB stick became unreadable (even after reboot). It was OK after I unplugged it and plugged again. I already experienced such errors occasionally when copying files from USB stick to another USB stick.

However after this I started to get write errors with my USB HDD. It even broke a folder on it, I had to fix it with scandisk. After scandisk the file system on USB HDD was OK, but then the strange things begun to happen. After I plug in my HDD, it works for a few seconds if I access it with explorer, I can browse folders for some time, but soon everything (the whole explorer and any other app trying to access USB HDD) hangs up. It hangs up immediately if I access it with Total Commander.

If I delete the registry entry for this HDD from Enum section, it is recognized again, it works for several minutes, I can open some files from this HDD, and they are opened corectly, I can access it with Total Commander, but soon everything hangs up again until I unplug the HDD. Then everything starts to respond again.

May be the reason is insufficient power for this HDD? It's quite an old Intel D815EPE2U motherboard. Or this is a software problem?

Maybe I should have written this into Native USB drivers thread...

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