IPv6 and Win98

[cyberformer]

I've been contemplating the possible scenarios which could likely occur, in reference to the "router" aspect of things, especially as it relates to something bought up by wsxedcrfv, who said:

"I would think that the vast majority of people that are home or SOHO internet users will have (or be given) new DSL or cable modems by their ISP's that are IPv6 aware (on the WAN side) and perform NAT translation to IPv4 IP address's on their LAN side. So any equipment on the LAN side theoretically wouldn't need to know anything about IPv6 - unless ..."

Would not these new routers have to have Win 9x drivers?

What is the likelihood that such service providers would be so kind to do such a thing?

The only thing that could possibly prompt such a possibility, would be for them to arrive at the decision that there are enough Win Me, Win 98, and Win 95 users---to make it worth their while as a company---to provide such routers? What is the chance of that?

Do not get me wrong, I would fervently hope, that wsxedcrfv would be quite right!

But the sad trend, seems to be less and less software, hardware, and drivers for our 9x systems---as time goes on, unless something exceedingly strange should manifest itself.

[Cyker]

I'm also worried about all the IPv4 hardware (Palms, printers, cameras, NAS' etc.).

In theory, it should be possible to NAT from IPv6 <-> IPv4, as we used to use IPX/SPX<->TCP/IP NAT routers in my university (*sniff* I miss IPX!), but IPv6 is such a mess that I think it will be glitchy, like in the old modem days when I used WinGate as a SOCKS proxy to share my modem connection!

There is no getting around it - Mass IPv6 deployment will break the 'net right now; Companies aren't thinking about inter-op scenarios atm; They just want to sell you IPv6 gear to replace all your IPv4 gear!

That said, I think you can access a lot of things using an IPv6-aware proxy, but there is a lot of stuff that won't work properly over a proxy, and obviously it requires your device/program support using a proxy, which many more obscure things (Which are usually the ones you need...) don't!

[cyberformer]

I am wondering if the following is practical.

This concept is derived from how an old PC, can have a Linux version installed to make it into a firewall.

Could one use a Linux version---that would turn an old PC into a router, which would then be the go between---between-- a 9x PC---and the Internet?

Either using an available Linux distribution, or a specific program which would allow for such a thing?

What about XP?

Can one "funnel" a dedicated 9x machine---through a dedicated XP machine---for Internet use?

Would this work in the worse case IPV6/9x possibility?

Is this a very far fetched scheme, or is it something that could indeed be done?

[Cyker]

It is possible to turn a Linux machine into a router, but AFAIK there is nothing in Linux for doing IPv4 <-> IPv6 NAT

I think you can use something like Squid to proxy web requests from an IPv4 interface to an IPv6 interface, but that's only really for http web stuff.

[Drugwash]

How easily this topic has been forgotten... Even by myself who already raised the question at some point in time. And now comes the time to do it again: while looking for a totally unrelated (or not?) thing, I stumbled into a press communicate released by my current Internet provider on October 10, 2011. In a nutshell, it states that RCD&RDS is the first operator in Romania to implement IPv6 for household clients, nationwide. In Novemeber, the program will be extended to business clients and by the end of 2011, the program will cover the whole country.

Now, I should back up a little and mention what I was looking for: it's the PPPoE driver for Win95/98, which has been available at some point from one of their servers, without which I couldn't have been able to connect to the wired network a few years ago at the old location. Well, the old address is not available anymore and my search has come up with no results.

Extrapolating a bit, I would bet my life that they will never distribute any Ipv6 to IPv4 routers or any similar equipment, because they follow the worldwide trend of "upgrade to latest", therefore their clients would either have to buy Windows Vista/7/8/etc, use a recent Linux distro or break the contract. Mind you, I've called their customer service 4-5 years ago and they totally declined any responsability versus Win9x clients.

Considering the above, would you still say "sit back and relax coz IPv6 is still far away"? The implications of this IPv6 being implemented on a worldwide scale are too huge to be discussed on a lite note. The link above mentions "printer, smartphone, tablet, smart TV, home theater PC, refrigerator, surveillance camera, NAS - Network Attached Storage, etc." as devices that will have their own external IP address... I know many will call me a paranoid, but when the day comes that the fridge locks itself because the Internet told it you have eaten too much at lunch, only then will you realize where this world has come to. By then, it would've been too late already.

[dencorso]

Now, I should back up a little and mention what I was looking for: it's the PPPoE driver for Win95/98, which has been available at some point from one of their servers, without which I couldn't have been able to connect to the wired network a few years ago at the old location. Well, the old address is not available anymore and my search has come up with no results.

Well, RASPPPoE remains available, and it's better than any ISP-provided drivers. It served me well for a long time, and still does, whenever I decide to connect bypassing my router for some reason. It's universal, configurable, and just works! Hope this solves your original problem.

As for IPv6, well, tomorrow I'll worry about it...

Then again, the fridge is a much more serious matter, but mine's far older than Win 95, and I'll try to keep it going as far as I can manage to!

[Drugwash]

The ISP provided the very same version of RASPPPoE created by Robert Schlabbach, but that's not the point; the point is, they pulled it from their servers together with the page that contained installation guide, so that Win9x users would not benefit from it. This is not an accident - it's on purpose, the same as pulling most Win9x drivers (that were already there before) from all major hardware manufacturers, together with the total lack of 9x drivers for new hardware. I'm not a programmer but I know a few things and for sure I know that when there's a will, there's a way... unless someone explicitely forbids you to do it.

Tomorrow you might wake up with an icon in your systray saying "network disconnected" and a pool of water in the kitchen from your FUBAR old fridge.... Remember what happened to Cassandra in the ancient history - I'm at peace.

[ScrewUpgrading]

How long do you think you'll be able to connect using Windows 98/Me?

(Assuming you're using a plain Win9x computer, and not a dual boot, or virtual machine).

Any theories?

[loblo]

As far as I understand the only potential issue of that kind is a switch to IPv6 addresses which 9x OSes don't support.

It's likely to happen some day since there does not seem to be enough IPv4 adresses to accommodate for an ever growing number of online machine.

Burt then we've seen many miracles happening on the 9x front those last years so there is some hope that someone clever will come up with a solution to support those.

[tain]

ISPs don't really support win9x in the sense that most won't be able to help you if you call in for tech support. But ipv4 will be around for many years to come and even if it were you could still run ip4v behind your ipv6 router/modem.

[ScrewUpgrading]

Hopefully never I like Windows Me.

Here's an interesting article I came across regarding IPv6 and Windows 9x/Me.

"Will IPv6 break my internet on old machines?"

http://ask-leo.com/will_ipv6_break_my_internet_on_old_machines.html

[dencorso]

Trumpet Winsock 5.0 remains available and supports IPv6, IIRR.

It's shareware, so it's not for free, after the 30 day trial period.

Peter Tattam is one of the internet pioneers who remains around, and he has recently also released a DOS IPv6 Stack (commercial, there is an older free version, but I think only the new one supports IPv6).

There's also this rummor (source Warning: strong anti-9x/ME bias):

Sometime in 1998 Microsoft Research releases its first trial version IPv6 protocol stack, which can be installed on Windows 95 or Windows 98 to provide limited IPv6 support.

Is there anybody here with time and patience to track it down?

@Drugwash: Yes, you've got me thinking about it.

[loblo]

Sometime in 1998 Microsoft Research releases its first trial version IPv6 protocol stack, which can be installed on Windows 95 or Windows 98 to provide limited IPv6 support.

Is there anybody here with time and patience to track it down?

I recall we spoke about that already sometime ago and I am not sure that thing actually exists, anyway it's nowhere to be found.

What can be found is the Microsoft IPv6 Technology Preview for Windows 2000 from September 25, 2000 in which it is stated that:

The IPv6 Technology Preview is not available for Windows NT 4.0, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Millennium, or Windows CE.

Whether this means Microsoft never wrote any IPv6 code towards the 9x series, I don't know.

[dencorso]

It seems they really never supported 9x/ME: this page is the earliest MS page available in the Wayback Machine regarding MSRIPv6 1.0, and it says:

At this time, Microsoft Research has no plans to support this experimental stack on Windows 95 or Windows 98

So, it seems MSRIPv6 for 9x/ME is just a urban legend...

[Drugwash]

I have both the compiled version and the sources for v1.4. As expected, the compiled version was built for NT systems (the inf says $WINDOWS NT$). However, a good programmer might be able to modify the sources to support Win9x. Question is: who might that person be?

I also have the old Hitachi driver for NE2000-compatible PCMCIA ethernet cards, in both 95 and NT versions, albeit some registry keys would be written in Japanese. I'm not sure it would be of any help.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Drugwash