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Dell LCD Panel built in USB hub


risk_reversal

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My old CTX 17" CRT monitor is failing, it has a USB hub incorporated into the swivel base.

I was looking to replace it with a Dell LCD panel which also has a built in USB hub.

When I got the CTX years ago, I had to install a driver [supplied by CTX] so that 98SE would recognize the USB hub.

My mobo is Via based [266B chipset] and only has USB1.1

Question:

Presumably the USB hub in the Dell LCD panel will also require a driver? I have looked on the Dell site and none were listed [understandibly].

I was wondering whether NUSB would recognize the USB hub or whether it was merely for flash type drives ie thumb drives, camera, etc and external hard drives.

Any info as to whether the Dell built in USB hub will work natively with 98SE or advice as to how I should proceed would be most appreciated.

Cheers

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My understanding is, unless Dell provide the Win98 drivers in a CD, you may have to figure out the manufacturer and model of the USB hub within the Dell's LCD and get the win98 driver for it.

After googling a bit I found this Windows 98 USB Mass Storage Device Drivers, I guess that is what you are refering NUSB to though. It should work with the variety of USB plug and play devices as stated from that website.

As always, it is a good idea to list the model that you are referring to incase someone else who has it can share their experience.

Edited by eksasol
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Many thanks for your reply eksasol.

The link which you posted is correct. I do use NUSB [v2.4] already and it is very good with 100% record so far detecting flash drives, cameras, external HDDs.

However, I am not sure it will work [ie detect and install] the actual USB hub itself and more so since my mobo only has USB v1.1. Hence why I was posting to get some feedback. I cannot believe 98SE users do not use any kind of USB hub.

The panel I was interested in purchasing is the Dell 19" 1905FP or 1907FP.

Any info much appreciated

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal
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Well, since you are planning on springing for a new display I'd suggest tacking on an extra $9 onto the order and get a USB 2.0 PCI card (if you have a slot free naturally). This is because legacy USB 1.1 is too painful to comprehend (IMHO)! Flashdrives, Cameras and External HDD's on USB 1.1? You will be much happier after changing this!

Next, I would concentrate on getting this USB 2.0 working first, without ever plugging in the USB wire from the new monitor. Once it is working OK then I would try to get the monitor's USB hub working, but this is definitely secondary (at least to me).

I suspect all that is really needed is an INF file detailing the ID's for the USB hub, because all the system files are probably present already from the NUSB package. The pertinent data may even be included in the new monitor's INF (as you probably are aware Dell monitors typically come with 3 files, for example: E173fp.cat , E173fp.icm , E173fp.inf). The INF for a new monitor with a USB hub *may* have the data inside. Or, maybe not.

If you have no luck tracking down a Win98 compatible INF file for the new monitor's USB hub, I can think of one way to kind of 'capture' them. I just might hook the new monitor to a WinXP system (or maybe even WinME) insert the driver CD, and make careful snapshots of the registry (and file copy activity) before and after. At the end of this, a .INF or .REG can likely be created.

Of course, it's also possible that only a few edits to the INF file from the driver disc might be needed in order to allow Win98 to use it.

Finally, failing all of the above, there are always cheap external hub/card-readers. This may be the smartest option since popping it into the USB port only when needed simplifies the whole multiple drive letter or hanging on shutdown that sometimes happens on Win9x with permanent mounted readers/hubs.

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CharlotteTheHarlot said:

Well, since you are planning on springing for a new display I'd suggest tacking on an extra $9 onto the order and get a USB 2.0 PCI card (if you have a slot free naturally). This is because legacy USB 1.1 is too painful to comprehend (IMHO)! Flashdrives, Cameras and External HDD's on USB 1.1? You will be much happier after changing this!

Next, I would concentrate on getting this USB 2.0 working first, without ever plugging in the USB wire from the new monitor. Once it is working OK then I would try to get the monitor's USB hub working, but this is definitely secondary (at least to me).

Did try to install a pci USB2.0 card sometime back and had a lot of issues with it. The only available vacant slot was 5 [1 being shared by the AGP slot] and it caused lock up issues.

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

I suspect all that is really needed is an INF file detailing the ID's for the USB hub, because all the system files are probably present already from the NUSB package. The pertinent data may even be included in the new monitor's INF (as you probably are aware Dell monitors typically come with 3 files, for example: E173fp.cat , E173fp.icm , E173fp.inf

Following your comment, I set about doing a more thorough search and found a driver file on the Dell site which I thought was to do with the correct detection and identification of the panel only. The driver file is R119568 and contains a 1907fp.cat, 1907fp.ecm & 1907fp.inf.

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/...p;fileid=158980

The contents of the zip are as per pic below

post-66334-1253355654_thumb.jpg

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

The INF for a new monitor with a USB hub *may* have the data inside. Or, maybe not.

Are you saying that 1907fp.INF may be 1. Info just for the panel only or 2. that the INF will contain info on the panel and the USB hub.

Is there any way to tell? I have looked inside the 1907fp.inf file and can only see info as regards the panel.

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

If you have no luck tracking down a Win98 compatible INF file for the new monitor's USB hub, I can think of one way to kind of 'capture' them. I just might hook the new monitor to a WinXP system (or maybe even WinME) insert the driver CD, and make careful snapshots of the registry (and file copy activity) before and after. At the end of this, a .INF or .REG can likely be created.

Question: I am guessing that if I connect the panel to an XP machine and attach the USB hub to a port on my mobo, that XP will auto detect the hub and install it. Pretty much in the same way that it auto detects other stand alone hubs that I have attached to it before. So why use the CD. Apologies if I am being particularly stupid here.

Any further info or advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal
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I would concentrate on getting this USB 2.0 working first... Finally... there are always cheap external hub/card-readers. This may be the smartest option...
I fully agree with CharlotteTheHarlot.

I am using with my dual-core desktop under Win98 a ViewSonic 2030b monitor (1600x1200 resolution), which also has a USB 2.0 connector/hub, but I never use the USB 2.0 connector.

This USB 2.0 connector was probably intended for a USB mouse or a USB keyboard, which I don't use because I have turned off in the BIOS "Legacy USB Support". USB devices therefore are not yet recognized by the computer at the time when the System Commander menu comes up with the operating system selection menu, i.e. before the USB driver or an operating system is actually loaded. I am using a serial, not a USB, mouse and keyboard, which work fine. And of course, wireless devices don't work at the time the operating system selection menu is displayed.

On my older Dell Inspiron laptops I have installed nusb 3.3 and am using the Orangeware driver v2.4.1 for USB 2.0 hubs.

Edited by Multibooter
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Many thanks for the added info.

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

I suspect all that is really needed is an INF file detailing the ID's for the USB hub, because all the system files are probably present already from the NUSB package.

Think I will have a stab at making up an INF file with the necessary info and see whether that works.

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal
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Did try to install a pci USB2.0 card sometime back and had a lot of issues with it. The only available vacant slot was 5 [1 being shared by the AGP slot] and it caused lock up issues.

Definitely not fun! No way to kill the USB 1.1 and legacy serial ports in the BIOS? Do you need LPT? Maybe kill the NIC or modem too (lots of systems have both, but few need both)? This should free up one or possibly two IRQs.

Following your comment, I set about doing a more thorough search and found a driver file on the Dell site which I thought was to do with the correct detection and identification of the panel only. The driver file is R119568 and contains a 1907fp.cat, 1907fp.ecm & 1907fp.inf.

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/...p;fileid=158980

Are you saying that 1907fp.INF may be 1. Info just for the panel only or 2. that the INF will contain info on the panel and the USB hub ... Is there any way to tell? I have looked inside the 1907fp.inf file and can only see info as regards the panel.

Just looked at it. Typical Dell file, just puts the monitor into the registry. Apparently their plan is for the computer to PnP the hub, unless they have some supplemental file somewhere. It is coded for Chicago, so it will be fine on Win98.

Question: I am guessing that if I connect the panel to an XP machine and attach the USB hub to a port on my mobo, that XP will auto detect the hub and install it. Pretty much in the same way that it auto detects other stand alone hubs that I have attached to it before. So why use the CD. Apologies if I am being particularly stupid here.

Its worth a shot to see if Win98+NUSB will recognize the hub. Be sure to do the monitor without the hub first (reboots, and make sure it sticks in display properties), then only move on to the USB wire after it is ok. No sense confusing things

If it fails on Win98 my next option would be to try a WinME system (hey, they are good for something! :whistle: ). They are better USB equipped out of the box naturally. There is much less registry and file activity on Win9x systems which is a great benefit when capturing file and registry settings. BEFORE connecting the monitor you want to first export the registry. After rebooting and doublechecking that the hub is working take the second snapshot.

NOTE: porting settings is the hardest method for sure! And porting USB settings is really tough because of the nature of the ConfigMg detection. To put it plainly, most hardware are using identical identification strings and registry from one computer to another, USB stuff almost never is ***. So, when undergoing the massive effort of manually porting a USB device, it had better be worth it!

Now if we look at it this way: if we are turning a USB 1.1 mobo port into four downstream USB 1.1 ports on a monitor, hmmm.

***: see later post for a little more!

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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CharlotteTheHarlot said:

Definitely not fun! No way to kill the USB 1.1 and legacy serial ports in the BIOS? Do you need LPT? Maybe kill the NIC or modem too (lots of systems have both, but few need both)? This should free up one or possibly two IRQs.

Serial ports and LPT already disabled in the bios.

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

Just looked at it. Typical Dell file, just puts the monitor into the registry. Apparently their plan is for the computer to PnP the hub, unless they have some supplemental file somewhere. It is coded for Chicago, so it will be fine on Win98.

Ok good to know at least that the monitor files would work in 98SE. Otherwise, if I don't install this driver file then the monitor will come up in Device Manager as something like 'Default Monitor'

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

Its worth a shot to see if Win98+NUSB will recognize the hub. Be sure to do the monitor without the hub first (reboots, and make sure it sticks in display properties), then only move on to the USB wire after it is ok. No sense confusing things

If the monitor is detect albeit as Default Monitor should I still attempt to install the Dell files?

Was reading the NUBS thread again and on page 10 MDGx links to a vendor ID page

http://www.msfn.org/board/maximus-decim-na...5-page-180.html

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

Which has a Dell 1905FP. I guess the VID is 413c & PID a700 [Hub (in 1905FP LCD Monitor)]

I thought one could just add the entries to NUSB, similarly to what this guy did below.

[Manufacturer]

%CnMemory.Mfg%=CnMemory

[CnMemory]

%USB\VID_1516&PID_8628.DeviceDesc%=USBSTOR_BULK,USB\VID_1516&PID_8628

[strings]

CnMemory.Mfg="CnMemory"

USB\VID_1516&PID_8628.DeviceDesc="Generic USB Flash Disk"

However, not sure NUSB is configured to install USB Hubs. I do not know enough about it.

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

NOTE: porting settings is the hardest method for sure! And porting USB settings is really tough because of the nature of the ConfigMg detection. To put it plainly, most hardware are using identical identification strings and registry from one computer to another, USB stuff almost never is. So, when undergoing the massive effort of manually porting a USB device, it had better be worth it!

I take it you mean trying to configure an INF file and set up registry settings is going to be very difficult. Maybe I should just rebuilt this pc with a USB2.0 enabled board.

Question if I have the original CTX USB hub driver / .inf file. Would amending that be an easy solution ie change .INF settings of file and I can see the registry entries of the CTX Hub

Many thanks for the added info

Edited by risk_reversal
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I was unable to contribute till now, because I had a program processing in Win XP which I didn't want to interrupt, and it took three days to finish. Now I've rebooted into Win 98SE and did some tests: NUSB 3.3 has recognized each of two different USB HUBs I plugged into the ports. One is a USB 1.1 HUB (VID = 03EB [=Atmel Corp.] PID = 0902) and the other a USB 2.0 HUB (VID = 05E3 [=Genesys Logic, Inc.] PID = 0608). For the recognition of the former nothing was required, and for the latter it displayed the "Add Driver" dialog box (as usual) and I clicked OK as needed (as usual), and NUSB took over (as usual), and that's all. Both get labeled "Generic USB Hub". Both are seen by USBView 5.1.2600.2180, and both work perfectly. :thumbup So, IMHO, you'll need to do nothing, just plug the monitor's hub into a port, and it'll simply work. YMMV, but I sincerely doubt you'll need anything more than plain vanilla NUSB 3.3 for it to work OK. BTW, of course, if you just plug in the hub, while you don't attach any storage device to it you'll not have the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the tray, because there is nothing to stop in a hub. Good luck!

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CharlotteTheHarlot said:

NOTE: porting settings is the hardest method for sure! And porting USB settings is really tough because of the nature of the ConfigMg detection. To put it plainly, most hardware are using identical identification strings and registry from one computer to another, USB stuff almost never is. So, when undergoing the massive effort of manually porting a USB device, it had better be worth it!

I take it you mean trying to configure an INF file and set up registry settings is going to be very difficult. Maybe I should just rebuilt this pc with a USB2.0 enabled board.

Just to expand on my previous post a bit, from some haphazard research on USB activity: The usual hardware identification strings (&Ven &Dev &SubSys &Rev &Bus &Dev &Func ...) which get concatenated into registry key names are consistent from computer to computer. They certainly should be consistent since they originate from a common source: the INF file from the driver package or Windows INF folder, and the physical bus it is on, position, etc. Likewise for the values found underneath these keys ("DeviceDesc" "MFG" ... ).

What I was referring to up in Post #8 was the apparently exclusive to USB "SymbolicName" entries that are pointers to within that massive HKLM registry structure under System\CurrentControlSet\Control\DeviceClasses. For example: a basic hardware item like a native PS/2 mouse that later gets used on a USB port (via adapter) acquires new registry entries under Enum\Usb where that "SymbolicName" value will appear and it points into that key. As a PS/2 device the entries across multiple machines are consistent, but as USB there *can* be variation underneath ...\DeviceClasses usually from the sequential numbering found there (\##.#0000000000000013# ... etc).

So what I was getting at is that manually porting USB devices can be interesting to say the least.

Question if I have the original CTX USB hub driver / .inf file. Would amending that be an easy solution ie change .INF settings of file and I can see the registry entries of the CTX Hub

Well I'd be 100% certain first that the INF is for the exact same Hub that Dell stuck into the monitor. However the next post was from dencorso which seems to suggest the really good news for you that no INF file might be needed at all. Try that first! But still, I'd snapshot the registry beforehand so you can manually rollback if necessary (save the System.dat also which makes for a real easy rollback ;-).

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However the next post was from dencorso which seems to suggest the really good news for you that no INF file might be needed at all. Try that first! But still, I'd snapshot the registry beforehand so you can manually rollback if necessary (save the System.dat also which makes for a real easy rollback ;-).
I agree. It's always wise to remain on the safe side. :yes:
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dencorso said:

Now I've rebooted into Win 98SE and did some tests: NUSB 3.3 has recognized each of two different USB HUBs I plugged into the ports. One is a USB 1.1 HUB (VID = 03EB [=Atmel Corp.] PID = 0902) and the other a USB 2.0 HUB (VID = 05E3 [=Genesys Logic, Inc.] PID = 0608). For the recognition of the former nothing was required, and for the latter it displayed the "Add Driver" dialog box (as usual) and I clicked OK as needed (as usual), and NUSB took over (as usual), and that's all. Both get labeled "Generic USB Hub". Both are seen by USBView 5.1.2600.2180, and both work perfectly.

Many thanks for the info dencorso.

My mobo is an older board with USB1.1 ports ONLY and the version of NUSB used is v2.4. You did not mention the USB capabilities of the board which you used but I suspect that if you used NUSB v3.3 it might have been a USB2.0 enabled board.

Question please: Any reason in principle to suggest that the USB hub dectection would not work with my older USB and NUSB version ie is the INF in v3.3 materially different to the one in v2.4.

dencorso said:

BTW, of course, if you just plug in the hub, while you don't attach any storage device to it you'll not have the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the tray, because there is nothing to stop in a hub.

That will do nicely for me.

CharlotteTheHarlot, many thanks for your reply and further clarity on this matter. I do hope that it will be good news from what dencorso has said.

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

But still, I'd snapshot the registry beforehand so you can manually rollback if necessary (save the System.dat also which makes for a real easy rollback ;-).

I was going to save the registry, take a snapshot with second chance and image the whole partition [images for dos] prior to doing anything.

My wife is busting my chops with the current monitor as it intemittently goes off so I am on the case to purchase this panel asap. I will post back once I have the panel in hand and can provide any info as to how the install went.

Many thanks for your kind help

Edited by risk_reversal
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Question please: Any reason in principle to suggest that the USB hub dectection would not work with my older USB and NUSB version ie is the INF in v3.3 materially different to the one in v2.4.
No. No reason at all. It should work. And yes, my mobo has native USB 2.0 capabilites. Try with NUSB 2.4, as it is. If it doesn't work, then you might think about upgrading to 3.3, not before. The .INF in 3.3 is more complete, but most of the difference regards USB 2.0, so it's irrelevant for you, right now. Good luck!
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