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Opera 10


Mijzelf

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to Mijzelf, triger49, fortcollins ...

What app were you using to see the 100% CPU usage? If it is SYSMON, is the Win98se or the WinME version?

to Everyone ...

Noticing on Opera 10.10.1893 that for every download I start, a new tab 'Downloads' opens. I could swear that this is new behaviour and that previously all downloads would get thrown into the already existing 'Downloads' tab. The preference setting, if any, eludes me.

Hope this will fix it Charlotte!

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=298527

BTW Opera 10.10 seems to be working fine under Windows 98SE on my machine.

Opera's line now appears to be that they haven't consciously broken compatibility with any legacy operating systems, but they don't now guarantee that new versions will work properly under them.

I assume that means that they don't now test new versions under Windows 98 (or 95).

Cheers, Dave.

:)

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Opera's line now appears to be that they haven't consciously broken compatibility with any legacy operating systems, but they don't now guarantee that new versions will work properly under them.

I assume that means that they don't now test new versions under Windows 98 (or 95).

Cheers, Dave.

:)

It sounds like they may be going the way of Mozilla, then. (Firefox 1.x was never officially supported with Windows 95, but ran on it anyway.)

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to Mijzelf, triger49, fortcollins ...

What app were you using to see the 100% CPU usage? If it is SYSMON, is the Win98se or the WinME version?

Well I don't know about everyone else, but when it happened to me it was very obvious b/c my laptop's CPU fan instantly came on and stayed on with Opera locked up and nonresponsive. I later verified the 100% CPU usage with System Monitor in Win98SE.

HTH

Edited by Prozactive
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Opera 10.10 Build 1893 is working fine and snappy here on 98-lited Win98se.

In case it matters, all bonus functions -- Unite, Opera Link, Widgets, Voice Navigation -- are disabled, since I don't use them. The context spell checker works fine. Also, Cache Directory4 is pointed to a custom folder in RAM (via VRAMDIR), and the cache is emptied each time Opera closes.

to CharlotteTheHarlot ... What are the differences between Sysmon ME and w98 versions? I use the w98 version basically from habit.

Edited by chromatic47
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What are the differences between Sysmon ME and w98 versions? I use the w98 version basically from habit.

I dunno. Always wondered about the tweaks to the tools between 98se->ME. They were not simply version string updates like some of the earlier versions (when you look in ExamDIFF there are many differences). I always had this gut feeling that some improvements had been integrated seeing how WinME does have better memory usage and management, but I certainly could be wrong. However, consensus seems to be that things like Defrag contain actual fixes.

Anyway I was just wondering so that I could be on the same page so to speak, and try to see the exact same thing as everyone else here.

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Did you fix your multiple download tabs problem Charlotte?

Yup, and I thank you again Dave :thumbup (see original post for an edit). Sorry 'bout that, should have replied directly. Instead I used a time machine to respond in advance to your dead-on accurate reply!

@Everyone ...

It seems they may have got one thing fixed in Opera 10 after all. There was this nasty tendency in Opera 9.xx for some random downloaded files to be defective even when the transfer tab/window pronounced the file as DONE. In the Opera 9.xx in Windows 98 thread see Posts #55 and #62 where I noted it.

Having run a few hundred files through Opera 10.10 now, I have yet to find one that wasn't completed properly. Has anyone else seen the download problem at all in Opera 10.xx?

All things considered though, I would take the once-in-a-while defective download over these random pauses/freezes!

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This Opera freeze problem is getting downright interesting. Unless I'm mistaken, the freeze seems to be almost on a clock of multiples of six minutes (sometimes 6, sometimes 12 etc). Here is what I have manually noted in the past couple of hours (rough times eyeballed from the tray clock):

;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:02
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:08
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:14
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:26
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:33
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:39
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:46
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:52
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 00:58
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 01:04
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 01:10
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 01:16
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 01:28
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 01:39
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 01:52
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:04
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:11
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:16
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:28
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:34
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:40
;###### VERIFIED OPERA FREEZE: 02:52

BTW: If anyone has some knowledge of Win9x compatible Process Monitors please see this thread. With a logging utility as described in that thread, I could produce a much better list.

My current theory is that there is some scheduled housekeeping going on, this housekeeping for some strange reason places the browser into sleep. As I am poorly versed in Java/JRE programming I wonder if any members here who happen to know this topic might recognize sleep and/or scheduled housekeeping as common boilerplate practices (perhaps related to the so-called Javascript garbage collection?).

I found an old discussion that mirrors my experience (see here). That thread is from 2008-04-01 and the version was Opera 9.26 (which I remember as being perfect). Nevertheless the description matches so IMHO we are probably blaming the 10.xx branch wrongly.

EDIT: to everyone experiencing the freezes/pauses, you must read through this thread at opera. It is right on point and vividly describes the frustration. I only found that page through Google and it never turned up in all the local searches I have done over there at Opera during the past few weeks.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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to Mijzelf, triger49, fortcollins ...

What app were you using to see the 100% CPU usage? If it is SYSMON, is the Win98se or the WinME version?

Hi Charlotte;

Sorry I took so long here, holidays and sooo much good food ...fridge is just never big enough .. :rolleyes:

Anyway, when I was testing, I first tryed Win98se sysmon (is it a memory issue)? Spotted the heavily taxed

CPU....

Next stop was Process explorer...thinking maybe I could catch the offending process ...but the system

would just become unresponsive ...so as a last ditch effort, Checked my router logs to see where the last

request came from...I think it was like 4 out 5 from someplace like adsense or some such non-sense.

To make a long story short, in the meantime....somebody was throwing away this DFI motherboard (still in the box) which was a perfect fit for this Pentium III 933 procesor I had on the shelf. (98se loves it, btw). But it allowed me

to dual boot Windows 7 RC1 ....Which also surprised me how well it ran on this machine.

But in light of all that, I never got back to testing Opera 10 yet ...and the board I did test it with is on the shelf

right now.

Jake

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I'd like to remind everyone that Java is not JavaScript, and vice versa.

Understood.

(EDIT: strike entire paragraph, Opera currently has no dependencies on 3rd party Java/JRE whatsoever for normal operation, see next my post).

Where Javascript comes in is in the browser functionality required to process all the webpages coded by script kiddies (but don't get me started on this). Having cut my teeth on C, I am ok with Javascript.

I am seeing references to houskeeping particularly garbage collection which I assume is a practice common to Java coded apps that employs Javascript. Perhaps it is comparable to C++ destructors. Since the Garbage Collection is hardwired into the Java Console (*) I'm betting that this maintenance is tied to one or both Java/Javascript (which are joined at the hip in this example). EDIT * that is the Tools > Advanced > Java Console. If you open it you can then press the letter 'h' and a menu appears:

Commands:

----------------------------------------

c - clear console

f - run finalization

g - run garbage collection

h - help

l - list cached classloaders

m - memory usage

t - dump threads

x - clear classloader cache

(EDIT: that menu is dependent on 3rd party JRE, not seen when JRE is removed, see next post)

This is where Opera and Java and Javascript all collide. I am finding many references to this Garbage Collection along side Javascript all over the place. It looks like a memory management technique/method. In fact it is even mentioned around 2006 in MSKB 919237 You may experience slow performance when you view a Web page that uses JScript in Internet Explorer 6. This accounts for at least one update to Jscript.dll.

I'm really just casting a wide net here hoping that someone with expertise can shed some light on this.

@triger49 ... I'm now convinced that Opera (at least for me) is not pegging the CPU at all, it appears to be 0% CPU utilization. If you ever get a chance to look at this again in ProcExp, please note the CPU useage for Opera.exe and let me know if it flatlines. My testing shows that Opera is suspended, which explains why all keyboard/mouse events are cached (by the OS no doubt), all download packets bounce, and any popped up menus are frozen on-screen during the 'freeze'.

Most Process Monitors fail to segregate the individual process so that the Opera problem can be seen in isolation. See this thread.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot
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Both Java and JavaScript are languages that use their own garbage collection. But they are not related.

By the way, I didn't know Opera required the Java run-time. Does it really require it, or does it just ship with it?

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Both Java and JavaScript are languages that use their own garbage collection. But they are not related.

By the way, I didn't know Opera required the Java run-time. Does it really require it, or does it just ship with it?

Opera has never needed the Sun Java Runtime to be installed, it has its own Java support built in.

I think that has always been the case, at least back to version 7.

They say that you should always remove any references to Java plugins in the plugins list (Tools>Advanced>Plug-ins), as they can cause conflicts.

You can do that by adding them to plugin-ignore.ini.

:)

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Opera has never needed the Sun Java Runtime to be installed, it has its own Java support built in.

I think that has always been the case, at least back to version 7.

Reference to the Knowledge Base in Opera support gives a different view at

http://www.opera.com/support/kb/view/375

I have, so far as I can remember, always had Enable Java unchecked in all my years of using Opera and have never come across the need to enable it.

There again I don't have problems with Opera.

HTH

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