What's the best way to do a clean install on a store-bought PC?

[Alpaca Portrait]

I'd like to help out a friend who has a Sony Vaio desktop he got several years ago (XP Home). I believe it has just one partition, and it's really bogged down. We're going to add more memory, but I'd like to back up whatever data he wants to save and then reformat and partition the drive with the data separate from the OS, and I'd like some advice on what to expect during the process.

Except for my first PC I've always built my own, so I've always had all the necessary drivers for my hardware available. I haven't taken a really good look at his PC yet, but how do I determine what hardware he has and what drivers to have ready? I was thinking I'd use a system info tool like Everest to find out what he has and then go to the manufacturer's websites and try to find the right drivers. Is that the right way to go about doing it or is there a better way?

I don't know if he has any recovery disks, so when it comes to reinstalling XP can I just use any copy of an XP Home disk and then use the product key on the side of his case? I believe he has SP2, so I'd like to slipstream SP3 into the source beforehand. Am I likely to have any trouble activating when I'm done? I read on another forum that there can be issues with slipstreaming a service pack onto an OEM CD, but I don't know why.

Thanks for the help.

[jaclaz]

There is not one reason in the world to slipstream SP3 (which can mean trouble on OEM) for a "once upon a time" installation, if not that after you later upgrade the installed system to SP3, the original (SP2) disk won't be able to do a Repair install.

It's up to you the choice.

Usually OEM keys don't go well with non-OEM source.

SONY's have usually a Recovery Partiiton and/or a "local" source, from which you may want to use to re-create a "full" install CD or just get the drivers.

Here is some reference:

http://www.msfn.org/board/Cannot-access-CD...P-i-t91907.html

I haven't taken a really good look at his PC yet, but how do I determine what hardware he has and what drivers to have ready? I was thinking I'd use a system info tool like Everest to find out what he has and then go to the manufacturer's websites and try to find the right drivers. Is that the right way to go about doing it or is there a better way?

The method is right, I personally try to use only Freeware tools, like:

SIW:

http://www.gtopala.com/

or SIV:

http://rh-software.com/

jaclaz

Edited July 10, 2009 by jaclaz

[D_block]

well, my new thing is to browse the $windir$ and manually save the folder with the drivers and re apply them after the install. Once you check with your device manager also to make sure of what hardware is on the machine too... The good thing is, well that happens to me alot after xp-sp2 is alot of the drivers will be installed by default, so it saves you looking for them afterward

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Well don't worry about activation yet. If this is store bought and legal with the sticker on the side (includes Dell, HP, Compaq, Sony, eMachines), your friend owns a license and it will be activated, definitely, but probably after a simple phone call. That sticker and an honest explanation is all that is required. Also note that there are many special utilities to pull the product key as originally entered from the registry, and this may successfully preclude the phone call altogether.

Here is something to consider. Why do you want to obliterate the old working HDD with format/install? It is not like drives cost a ton of money, you should find a new 80 GB for like $30. Since he is adding RAM have him get another HDD at the same time. The current one remains as a failsafe backup. It will also be a necessary source of: registry export (valuable settings, product IDs, licenses), drivers, data (that someone always forgets), possible hidden recovery partitions, on and on. Using a new HDD allows you to experiment safely on getting the XP install correct.

Also, to identify the specific hardware, your first best option is to eyeball the actual parts rather than relying on software that takes its best guess. Start with the exact motherboard model and revision and hit Google and you will locate drivers that are likely independent of the original system retailer (Sony). Do the same for all other components. Each of those companies named above have 3rd party sites created by loyal users that often know more about the system than the original retailer does. You might hear something like: on Model xxxx, don't use the eMachines driver, instead get the package from FIC directly (just a common example).

[Alpaca Portrait]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

Jaclaz, I've read many of your posts in various threads and respect your knowledge. On my own PC I've followed your example and set it up with a small primary FAT partition and installed XP on a logical. I've also put Documents & Settings on its own partition, keeping the data separate from the OS. I've never had a problem with anything. I have 2-3 Ghost images I made at various stages of getting everything set up, and I have System Restore shut off. I had the data separated from the OS on my Win98 system as well, and if I ever had an issue I just loaded a disk image and was back in business in no time. That's what I was planning on doing for my friend. Do you see any problems with this?

I don't quite follow what you said in your first paragraph. Don't slipstream SP3 into an OEM source, I get that, but are you saying not to install SP3 even after getting the OS reinstalled because of the Repair Install functionality? Honestly, I don't even know what a Repair Install is, I've never done one, I just reload a disk image as I mentioned above. How important is the ability to do one since I'd like to incorporate Ghost images into the mix?

CharlotteTheHarlot, I have to admit, knowing all the ins and outs of activation is not an area of expertise for me. I've read topics that discussed what you mentioned in your post - utilities to get the product key from the registry - and I've never understood them. He's got a store-bought Sony with a product sticker on the case, so isn't the key in the registry the same as the one on the case? Why wouldn't it be?

I agree with you that having a 2nd HDD would be a good idea, and I'll suggest it to him, but I want to make sure I understand what you're suggesting. Are you saying to install XP on a new HDD, and then take the original and either hook it up as a slave or put it on the 2nd IDE connector??? If that's what you're saying, I'd have to de-activate the primary partition on the current HDD before it becomes the backup, correct? I know how to do it, I'm just asking for clarification. Also, if XP gets installed on a new HDD, since the old one is still 'seen' as part of the hardware configuration, there won't be any problems with activation?

I might be going to his place tomorrow, and if so I'll get a look at what his current HDD situation is as far as space used and hidden partitions, etc.

Thanks for any additional info.

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

CharlotteTheHarlot, I have to admit, knowing all the ins and outs of activation is not an area of expertise for me. I've read topics that discussed what you mentioned in your post - utilities to get the product key from the registry - and I've never understood them. He's got a store-bought Sony with a product sticker on the case, so isn't the key in the registry the same as the one on the case? Why wouldn't it be?

The sticker may or may not have the product key that was entered into the XP install screen. When you build a system yourself and open up a system builder OEM version of WinXP and install it, the key on that sticker will match the key in the registry because that key on the sticker is what you enter into the setup screen and then affix the sticker to the computer. However, this is not how the retailers do it because employees at stores could copy the keys off the stickers on their inventory and then run home and use or distribute the key (this is illegal), leaving the future purchaser in a lurch. They all have their own method to install and protect the XP installation while keeping their own costs as low as possible. Having myself inherited countless scrapped XP computers of which most are retail models from those companies mentioned previously, I can tell you that the key I pull from the registry rarely matches the affixed sticker. The few times that it does I suspect the previous owner re-installed and used the number from the sticker. Whether this resulted in a phone call activation is anyone's guess.

The main point I was making is that you should NOT worry about activation at all. If that system is legal and it has the sticker to prove it, you will get activated, period. The worse case scenario involves a free phone call. In your situation, I would do this: get a Sony labelled WinXP CD from the owner or Sony or eBay (it will be SP2 or older). I would setup using this disc and use the product key pulled from the registry, failing that use the sticker, (failing that make the phone call). Then you can run the SP3 update when done. This is the easiest way. Listen to what jaclaz said, it is difficult to impossible to recreate the retailer re-install CD from the files found on the hard disk. Slipstreaming SP3 into a complete source (Sony XP distribution disc) can be hard enough, but slipstream to a possibly incomplete source (taken from HDD i386 or recovery partition) may substantially tax one's patience.

EDIT to make clearer: I should have said that the fine print on your sticker will tell you what kind of WinXP Re-Installation CD branded by Sony you are looking for. Most importantly 'OEM' (99.999% certainty) and 'Home Edition' will be the key words. If it is 'Professional' you will need that instead. This is absolute, you cannot go from Home to Pro or vice versa. Don't attempt to install the wrong one!

I agree with you that having a 2nd HDD would be a good idea, and I'll suggest it to him, but I want to make sure I understand what you're suggesting. Are you saying to install XP on a new HDD, and then take the original and either hook it up as a slave or put it on the 2nd IDE connector??? If that's what you're saying, I'd have to de-activate the primary partition on the current HDD before it becomes the backup, correct? I know how to do it, I'm just asking for clarification. Also, if XP gets installed on a new HDD, since the old one is still 'seen' as part of the hardware configuration, there won't be any problems with activation?

Ultimately that original HDD might make a nice 2nd slave drive, but I meant leave it disconnected (or put it on a shelf) until everything on the new XP drive is ironed out (it should not be connected while installing XP to the new HDD). Consider it a fallback failsafe backup. It can be re-attached (while disconnecting the new HDD) and presto, you will be right back where you left off, with the ability to grab data files, drivers and that important registry export.

The main point is that re-installing XP to that current drive burns all your bridges at once, there is no going back. It is currently working, so don't kill it yet. Reformating it for slave use is way down the list of priorities well into the future IMHO. BTW, you would not have to de-activate any partition anyway, it will not be seen as a part of the new configuration from your XP install onto a new HDD. If and when the drive is slaved later, most BIOS's are smart enough to allow you to select which drive comes first, and it will not default to a slave drive (IOW you would need to manually force the BIOS to see the old slaved drive as the system bootup C:). The really good BIOS choices, usually on SATA, let you enable and disable specific drives (in this case only I would leave both drives hooked up and use the BIOS exclusively to pick my boot). But by disconnecting it completely, you will remove all confusion. So, to be clear, I was suggesting to use the old or new, not both.

Edited July 12, 2009 by CharlotteTheHarlot

[Alpaca Portrait]

However, this is not how the retailers do it because employees at stores could copy the keys off the stickers on their inventory and then run home and use or distribute the key (this is illegal), leaving the future purchaser in a lurch.

I had never even thought of that scenario, but it makes perfect sense now.

Update: I wasn't able to go over to his place today, he was busy, but I got him to take a picture of the sticker on his case and mail it to me. I thought he had XP Home, but according to the sticker he has Media Center. The far right side of the sticker is cut off in the pic, but I don't see 'OEM' anywhere on it. At the top above the product key it says this:

Windows XP Media Cntr Edtn 2004 (1-2 CPU)

Sony Corporation

That's all I have for now. The earliest I'll be able to get over to his place is next weekend, but I'll check back in.

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Update: I wasn't able to go over to his place today, he was busy, but I got him to take a picture of the sticker on his case and mail it to me. I thought he had XP Home, but according to the sticker he has Media Center. The far right side of the sticker is cut off in the pic, but I don't see 'OEM' anywhere on it. At the top above the product key it says this:

Windows XP Media Cntr Edtn 2004 (1-2 CPU)

Sony Corporation

In general, if you had Home OEM you would want a Home OEM CD, not Home Retail or Pro OEM or Pro Retail. MCE of course came a few years later. Although not on the sticker, 'OEM' is implied (I believe there is no MCE 'Retail' version). Hence, there is no way to get confused now. You want a Sony CD for XP MCE, preferably 2004, that is the easiest method to achieve what this thread title asks.

But if you cannot get one, you will need to try to build a CD from the existing files. Search for Sony MCE 2004 i386 or some such. Keep in mind that MCE has many more files than Pro, as stated previously this could be quite a chore! Slipstreaming this up to SP3 would be, well, interesting (although someone surely has done it).

I can think of one other way to do this but it has to be considered a last-ditch effort. I might clone that current installation to a new HDD, then shelve the old drive, then boot the new one, then have a look at the recovery partition and perform a reset. This won't get you a lean mean optimized setup, instead it will essentially be what Sony originally shipped, bloatware and all. Cloning to a new HDD buys a cheap insurance policy, if the reset/install goes wrong the old drive is still there unharmed and ready for use (clone and try again or try something else).

Whatever you end up doing, please report back for others to learn from!

[niteshadow]

First identify the exact model number and what your friend has or not (CDs).

It helps if you have any Sony re-installation CD, as they will likely be compatible.

But chances are there are no Windows re-installation CDs.

Especially if it's Media Center 2004 (it would not ship with the XP CD).

In any case I recommend to backup data and clone the hard drive just in case.

When cloning choose the whole disk so you get all partitions (including any hidden ones).

So get ready for that first, as it will give you peace of mind.

I use Clonezilla mostly; use whatever you're comfortable with.

The point is to restore the whole drive in case of problems.

Then make sure you know about the correct System Recovery procedure.

This depends on the model number, so research that at the Sony Support site.

Most store notebooks will have an on-board recovery method that will restore the factory system (from hidden partition).

This is invoked from the BIOS or by pressing F10 at boot

Read Cannot start the VAIO Recovery Wizard from computer for an example.

Very frequently, you need to run an application (Recovery Wizard) to actually create a system recovery DVD or CDs.

Check the How to create the VAIO Recovery Media Kit for overview.

In rare cases, you might have to check with Sony (they do sell recovery CDs).

Once you identified the procedure, follow it to restore the system to factory settings.

That's the best you can do if you don't have a Windows re-installation CD.

When system is back to factory, update the drivers.

While looking for drivers, check if your system has an available VAIO Applications Uninstaller software.

This helps in removing applications that are trial, bloated or simply not needed.

In any case remove junk to make it easy to maintain the notebook.

Then apply Windows service packs, followed by updated components.

I generally use Autopatcher for the latter, but it does not matter.

Finally restore any data, re-install applications.

At the end, re-clone the working system so it's faster to restore next time.

With Windows there usually will be a next time

Good luck!

[beats]

Regarding drivers, you might want to take a look at DriverGrabber. It grabs all installed drivers to a folder, so you can easily re-install them later on or on a fresh XP installation...

[Alpaca Portrait]

Beats, thanks, I'll give DriverGrabber a look.

Niteshadow, his PC is a desktop, not a laptop. He doesn't have any recovery CDs, but that stands to reason according to what you said, since he has MCE 2004. I'll get his exact model number when I go over there, I don't want to rely on him to guess what it is.

It's funny that you mentioned the recovery partition. I was on the phone with him last night and had him go into XP's Disk Managment console so he could give me some info about his HDD. The drive has 3 partitions. C: is 15 GB but only has 240 MB free space. D: is 121 GB and has 114 GB free space. Both these partitons are formatted NTFS. From my friend's description it sounds like C: is a primary partition and D: is a logical.

But he also has a letterless 6 GB FAT partition labled "EISA Configuration." I Googled for info on this and have gotten a variety of different answers as to how to use this partition.

1. You use this partition WITH Sony recovery CDs to restore the PC to its original state.

2. You use this partition TO CREATE Sony recovery CDs to then restore the PC to its original state.

3. You use this partition to restore the PC to its original state.

I'll read through your links and see what else I can learn.

[Ponch]

C: is 15 GB but only has 240 MB free space.

This is probably the main reason why his system seems to be "bogged down". Resizing the partitions (booting "GPartEd" cd for instance) followed by a defrag could be the easiest way to a normally working PC.