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Win2000 and ICH8-8R-9-9R-10-10R


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Hello everybody!

I'm having a look at my next configuration, on which I will run my W2k (don't even try to convince me). At least from documentation, it seems that Intel doesn't provide Ahci nor Matrix Storage drivers for W2k on any IOH (southbridge) newer than ICH7R, but hopefully some people have practical experience, so please bring it here.

(1) First, is it correct that no Ahci nor Raid drivers exist from Intel for W2k on Ich8-8r-9-9r-10-10r? Nor from the motherboard manufacturers? (Seen some for the Sata & Raid adapters added on the mobo, but none for Intel's IOH)

(2) I've read that W2k works on these southbridges without any added driver, only Raid is impossible. Is that correct? What is the observed performance then: <133MB/s buffered read and no Ncq? <300MB/s buffered read and no Ncq? Or <300MB/s buffered read and Ncq as good (measured by Atto or IOMeter for instance) as with Ahci driver? And does hot plug work for eSata without the Ahci driver?

(2b) For the non-Raid versions of Ioh, that is Ich8 Ich9 Ich10 without R, do I need an Ahci driver to get Ncq and >133MB/s and hotplug? Future Hdd and current Ssd need high transfer speeds.

(3) I considered misusing Xp drivers on W2k, but saw that IaStor.sys for instance calls KeAcquireInStackQueueSpinLock and KeReleaseInStackQueueSpinLock which don't exist in W2k's Hal.dll; more absences in W2k's Ntoskrnl.exe (the very same sys file is installed on an existing OS or by the F6 floppy). Can someone confirm it doesn't work?

(4) Or can I misuse on the Ich10r the W2k driver intended for the Ich7r? I guess it involves editing hardware identities in an Inf file of the Ich7r driver, doesn't it? Where do I find a description of this operation?

(5) What would the driverpacks http://driverpacks.net bring to this case? Their ichaahci.cat (=Ahci for Ich10) cites Win 5.0 5.1 5.2, but I just fear they did the type (3) operation.

(6) Does Uniata http://alter.org.ua/en/soft/win/uni_ata work on Ich10r? Their site tells Ich8 and the Inf file tells Ich9. Would a change in an Inf file suffice? It won't bring Raid up to now, but at least Ncq.

(7) (8) (9) I've certainly forgotten options...

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You could try (3), but I would look what (6) could bring in the near future:

Plans

Human-friendly setup tool

Full functional Serial ATA AHCI support

RAID support (mirror, stripping, mirror+stripping)

For now it will enable UDMA but nothing more than that. I wonder if they could get the ACHI/RAID feature to work, that's not something you do over night.

However, abusing the drivers from a ICH7 and rebuild them for ICH10 would not work, there are too much differences.

You will get more response on this in the Windows 2000 section, moving it there...

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Meanwhile I've at Asrock's mobo manual that W2k is to be installed on Ich10r-hosted drives without adding any driver, by setting the Sata host to "Advanced" and "IDE" in the Bios. This (2) is likely what I'll do until Uniata (6) is available for Ich10r.

But then, what functions do I lose with "IDE" settings instead of "Ahci"?

- Losing Ncq isn't as important with my W2k, since W2k doesn't have Xp's prefetch that issues multiple disk requests. And with a Flash disk, it would become negligible.

- But I wouldn't like the transmission speed to reduce to 133MB/s (Udma6) instead of 300MB/s (Sata2): bad for Flash disks and future mechanical disks.

So could someone be so kind as to try it? It doesn't need W2k. Just setting the Bios to IDE, (observe if Win still boots...) and measure with HdTach the buffered read speed of a Sata2 HDD on an Intel southbridge, something like Ich8-8r-9-9r-10-10r.

Thank you so much!

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Could someone make this quick try?

Xp would certainly be fine, it doesn't need W2k.

In the Bios, set the Sata host to "Ide" instead of "Ahci". Then with HdTach (or HdTune), look if the buffered read speed drops under 133MB/s or remains the same as with Ahci.

Thanks!

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  • 1 month later...

I had tried to use UniATA (no to avail, booting got stuck or it was INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE.)

However, I did stumble upon this.

BlackWingCat seems to have ICH9R working, if I interpreted the Google Translated text correctly.

Going to give it a whirl.

(Also, hibernating is way slower in Windows 2000 (no driver) compared to a Windows XP (with driver).)

(XP without the right driver is also slower than XP with the driver.)

EDIT: Setup refuses to install with the OS Emulation in FCWIN2K...

Edited by Colonel O'Neill
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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone else tried the modified 7.6 drivers? I still haven't had any success with them, it keeps saying my computer does not meet the minimum requirements for installing. I have tried FCWIN2K running as XP compatibility as well, which was a no-go.

My hibernate speed is way down without the SATA drivers, for example:

Windows XP (w/ driver) Hibernation = 15 seconds

Windows 2000 Hibernation = 25 MINUTES

This is on a C2D 2.1GHz with 1GB ram and a 160GB hard drive.

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  • 1 month later...

Meanwhile I've received my mobo with chipset Ich10r and know answers to (2) and (6), here they are:

(2) Without any driver, Ich10r runs at full throttle in IDE mode, thus enabling W2k. With 500GB Seagate 7200.12 drives, Atto sees the expected contiguous read speed of 134MB/s and huge throughputs on small files, absolutely identical to what it sees on Xp with Ahci mode chosen in the Bios, and with improvement at Q=10 and Q=4 versus "no overlapped I/O", so the Ncq works even with Ide settings - which isn't that surprising, as the equivalent of Ncq was introduced with Ata/5 (Udma/100). HdTach also sees buffer read speeds of 260MB/s so transmission is at Sata300 speed.

So the only limits to W2k, that is without the Ahci and Raid drivers, are that W2k can't exploit Raid arrays using the Intel driver, nor should it be able to use hot plugging brought by Ahci (well, I didn't try that last one actually).

(6) As UniAta doesn't answer these limitations up to now (Raid and Ahci), it doesn't bring more features to W2k on Ich8..Ich10r, so I didn't try it. But it certainly is useful, for instance to transfer an OS disk from one disk host to another of a different type - said to work with UniAta.

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Hi Col O'Neill, I briefly tried the 7.6 drivers modified by BlackWingCat, with no success up to now, but as I discover the Ich10r +IntelStorage +C2D +ddr +Sata +Ahci +PciE +Firewire +Alc889a +Lan1G all at the same time, I've probably done many things wrong (built no array for instance), and will go on trying.

Anyway, I've had a brief look at the contents of BWC's driver. The Setup.exe refused something (-> W2k) at my machine as well. Though I didn't check every file, I saw that BWC improved \Winall\Driver\IaStor.sys: his makes no single call to Hal.dll nor Ntoskrnl.exe entries specific to Xp, as opposed to Intel's original file. This is the actual driver file used both in Ahci and Raid modes, as defined in \Winall\Driver\Txtsetup.oem (just as the Intel original does it). Note the invalid signature of the modified IaStor.sys (of course) and tell Win not to worry about.

So the method should be to install through Winall\Driver\Txtsetup.oem (if copying Winall\Driver on an F6 diskette for a new installation) or through Winall\Driver\iaahci.inf or iastor.inf (on an existing Win). I haven't tried up to now, tell me if you do before I do.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Blackwingcat, nice to read you here! Many thanks for your drivers!

I still haven't tried drivers - yours neither - but I will do it.

I also have a Sata SSD meanwhile, and it shows >200MB/s on the P45+Ich10r, with Bios in Legacy (or Ata or whatever it calls it) mode, just the Intel Inf files, and no added driver for the Ich10r.

But: my win is still slow to start (35s for W2k on an X25E!) and I hope the proper driver will improve it. If not, it will be a matter of slow hardware detection.

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  • 2 weeks later...

And I could install W2k on an X25-E connected to an ich10r, with Bios set to Sata-Ahci, using BlackWingCat's driver on an F6 floppy.

The floppy had the contains of BWC's Winall\Driver folder, without any change, and it just ran smoothly. Well done, BWC!

My W2k installation Cd is heavily HfSlipped to the December 2007 status, but includes no other driver than those brought by Sp4 - which means, this Cd itself ignores everything about ich10r and Ahci.

Disk throughput is excellent with BWC's W2k driver, as well as NCQ: IOMeter tells random 4k reads jump from 6000 IO/s at Q=1 to 40,000 IO/s at Q=32 just as Intel advertises; Atto tells similar improvements; and the Ncq doesn't work without Ahci mode and adequate driver.

This W2k boots much faster (17s on X25-E and E8600) than if installed and booted in P-Ata compatibility mode, but not as fast as Xp with Intel's F6 (8s). It's perfectly possible that Xp boots inherently faster than W2k does, especially as the prefetch mechanism combines well with Ncq. Still investigating.

Edited by pointertovoid
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In an attempt to understand the difference in boot times between W2k (17s) and Xp (8s) on this same hardware (X25-E, ich10r, P45, E8600) I've tried to use BlackWingCat's modified Ahci driver on Xp as well.

Result: Xp still boots in 8s.

A strong clue that the original and modified Ahci drivers are equally fast, and Xp boots inherently faster than W2k does - at least on this hardware with Ncq and 2GB Ram.

I had already seen Xp boot quickly on a 7k160 +ich2 +i815ep +PIIIs +512MB. I got the impression that Xp started faster than W2k does, but the comparison wasn't fair then (old installation vs new, naked installation).

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But on the 2K, are you using it's original NTLDR + NTDETECT.COM or a XP/2003 one? :unsure:

Just in case:

http://www.msfn.org/board/which-os-2000-xp...re-t104327.html

OT, but not much ;) (actually sequel to the above referenced thread):

http://www.msfn.org/board/fat16-vs-fat32-v...ck-t125116.html

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Err... Humm... Cough, cough.

Well, after installing Xp in dual-boot after W2k, I just noticed inadvertently that Ntldr and Ntdetect had changed their version, but as Xp needs its own files, I couldn't revert to W2k's ones, you see. And then, when measuring boot times, 5.1 file versions were in place for W2k as well, which makes the comparison unfair, as I would revert to 5.0 if using just W2k, you know.

2k3 files seem very close to Xp on my mobos.

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