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5X the Ram and machine still slow :realmad:


Javalicious

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Memory Module(s)

Memory Module 1 : 128MB 16x(8Mx8) SDRAM PC133U-333-542 (CL3 up to 133MHz) (CL2 up to 100MHz)

Memory Module 2 : Smart Modular PDC16UV7284B103TS D730C029 64MB 8x(8Mx8) SDRAM PC100-322-622 (CL3 up to 100MHz) (CL2 up to 67MHz)

Memory Module 3 : 64MB 8x(8Mx8) SDRAM PC100-222-622 (CL3 up to 100MHz) (CL2 up to 100MHz)

Warning 5400 : Low bandwidth efficiency (advanced). Check memory timings and settings.

You are using three different types of ram together. You have a PC133 (but sticker says 100?) with 3-3-3 timings, a PC100-222 and a PC100-322. That's a bad mixture :) And some mainboards don't like mixing at all.

Try using just the 128 MB chip to see if things improve. Make sure the timings are correct in the bios. Don't read stickers :), try putting it on 133MHz if your mainboard supports it. I'm running a Winbond PC100-222@133-333 for years without problems.

Also try some other tool to check the voltages or do some real measurements if you can. Your Sandra readings can't be right, but values far less off can cause all kind of problems. Bad overall performance included.

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I'll second going with just one 128MB module for the moment, just to test. That's plenty fo a 500MHz P III running Win 98SE. The only downside is that it might slow Firefox down a bit if you start opening more than a couple of tabs.

And, I would swap the Ethernet card for something else, just to test. I did not explain my Packet Collision remark, but I've seen a laptop grind to a halt due to a mis-configured Ethernet card.

Swapping in and out HDDs and 40-wire or 80-wire cables is unlikely to make performance gains of the order you need.

Those PSU voltages are way too low, so low that I doubt their accuracy.

The answer to "Vcore is 1.68 - what should it be?" is anything from 1.60 volts up to 2.05 volts depending on exactly which processor model and stepping you have. 1.60 volt is usually for FC-PGA and the Slot-1's are more likely to be 2.00 volts, if it actually IS a 500MHz, or 1.65 volts if it actually is 550MHz. What does the string stamped on the top say?

.

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You should find another motherboard for that thing, my personal experiences with the SiS 620 and 630 chipsets were that they made pretty good processors very very slow. Get something like an intel BX chipset motherboard and whatever cheap AGP video card you can find and the system will be much faster.

Of course I can't guarantee that but you've got all the other parts sorted, the processor cant be that slow, nor can the hard drive make everything that slow and you've got the ram sorted.

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You might also try a different PCI slot for the LAN card as sometimes these go bad. Also if the motherboard has an onboard LAN, make sure it is disabled. You can use a program called Boot Log Analyzer to see boot delays.

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Copied from the manual for your board (linked to by submix8c):

Memory Support

Three DIMM slots for SDRAM 168-pin memory modules

Support for 66 MHz & 100 MHz memory bus

Maximum installed memory can be 3 x 256 MB = 768 MB

Unless I'm misreading this, the info contradicts.

The top half says (2) 128MB and (1) 64MB

the lower section says (1) 128MB and (2) 64MB

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks

Bank 0 : 128MB SDRAM 3-4-5-0CL

Bank 1 : 128MB SDRAM 3-4-5-0CL

Bank 2 : 64MB SDRAM 3-4-5-0CL

Speed : 1x 100MHz (100MHz data rate)

Multiplier : 1/1x

Width : 64-bit

Power Save Mode : No

Fixed Hole Present : No

Memory Module(s)

Memory Module 1 : 128MB 16x(8Mx8) SDRAM PC133U-333-542 (CL3 up to 133MHz) (CL2 up to 100MHz)

Memory Module 2 : Smart Modular PDC16UV7284B103TS D730C029 64MB 8x(8Mx8) SDRAM PC100-322-622 (CL3 up to 100MHz) (CL2 up to 67MHz)

Memory Module 3 : 64MB 8x(8Mx8) SDRAM PC100-222-622 (CL3 up to 100MHz) (CL2 up to 100MHz)

I'd try running with one stick at a time, starting with the 64MB. Save the 133MHZ until last. 64MB is more than sufficient for testing. Limiting to one stick at a time will rule out problems caused by more than one size/speed. If necessary, try each one individually. Mixed sizes aren't always a problem. I'm running a 128MB and a 32MB with no problems.

Forgot that MS ruined the 9X compatibility of those utilities. Here's links to 9X compatible versions.

Autoruns.

Process Explorer.

Rick

Edited by herbalist
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A couple more thoughts. You mentioned that it may be underclocked. Check your jumper positions against the manuals submix linked to.

Any unusual entries in autoexec.bat or config.sys? You mentioned the logo is there for a very long time. It's possible it may be hiding error messages. Also look at msdos.sys and see if there's a long boot delay specified. The windows logo can be taken out of the way by adding this line to msdos.sys:

Logo=0

Rick

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am finally back :wacko:

:whistle: Try putting 64mb ram at 0 slot:-64/128/128;and/or check Direct x,to check if drivers are final version for 98SE system?
It has DirectX 9.0c via Autopatcher (all my other 98se boxes work fine with it) I don't know if they are final versions though - how to tell?
You are using three different types of ram together. You have a PC133 (but sticker says 100?) with 3-3-3 timings, a PC100-222 and a PC100-322. That's a bad mixture :) And some mainboards don't like mixing at all.

Try using just the 128 MB chip to see if things improve. Make sure the timings are correct in the bios. Don't read stickers :), try putting it on 133MHz if your mainboard supports it. I'm running a Winbond PC100-222@133-333 for years without problems.

Also try some other tool to check the voltages or do some real measurements if you can. Your Sandra readings can't be right, but values far less off can cause all kind of problems. Bad overall performance included.

Yup, sticker says PC100 on the one Sandra reads as PC133 - I bought them second hand though so it's probably a previous owner error not manufacturer mislabel. I took out all ram except for 1 stick 128 pc133-333-542 (I chose the 128 because the 64 was the original lone stick it came here with and it had all these problems when I got it). No help. I found an identical stick (reported by Sandra as pc133-333-542 also) and added it for 256 - no change.

For info purposes these are everest memory test results with each configuration:

orig.312mismatched Read-107 MB/s, Write-48 MB/s, Lat-308.2 ns

128 133 single Read-107 MB/s, Write-48 MB/s, Lat-308 ns

256 133 2x128 Read-107 MB/s, Write-48 MB/s, Lat-307.4 ns

I don't know what these mean in real terms but since they were DEAD LAST in the list I assume ridiculously bad :lol: If this could be due to timing settings in the BIOS what should I reset to? As I said I just pick "best" or "optimal" because I'm not sure what they should be and I don't want to fry anything - all the settings I posted earlier are adjustable in this bios I just didn't want to change what I didn't understand.

And, I would swap the Ethernet card for something else, just to test. I did not explain my Packet Collision remark, but I've seen a laptop grind to a halt due to a mis-configured Ethernet card.

You might also try a different PCI slot for the LAN card as sometimes these go bad. Also if the motherboard has an onboard LAN, make sure it is disabled. You can use a program called Boot Log Analyzer to see boot delays.

Those PSU voltages are way too low, so low that I doubt their accuracy.

The answer to "Vcore is 1.68 - what should it be?" is anything from 1.60 volts up to 2.05 volts depending on exactly which processor model and stepping you have. 1.60 volt is usually for FC-PGA and the Slot-1's are more likely to be 2.00 volts, if it actually IS a 500MHz, or 1.65 volts if it actually is 550MHz. What does the string stamped on the top say?

The "card" in it is a jack on plate with a little cable that plugs in the middle-ish of the motherboard next to the Davicom chip which I gather is onboard lan while the $2 dirt devil has this great big Dlink card in a PCI slot - will try a swap in the next test round.

Everest reports the voltages as wonky as Sandra, it gave the info on stepping you mentioned too:

Field Value

Sensor Properties

Sensor Type National LM78 (ISA 290h)

Voltage Values

CPU Core 2.06 V

Aux 2.03 V

+3.3 V 1.06 V

+5 V 3.44 V

+12 V 10.40 V

Debug Info F FF FF 00

Debug Info T 240 00 00

Debug Info V 81 7F 42 80 AB 00 00 (01)

Field Value

CPU Properties

CPU Type Intel Pentium IIIE, 550 MHz (5.5 x 100)

CPU Alias Coppermine, CuMine, A80526

CPU Stepping cA2

Instruction Set x86, MMX, SSE

Original Clock 550 MHz

L1 Code Cache 16 KB

L1 Data Cache 16 KB

L2 Cache 0

CPU Physical Info

Package Type 242 Contact SEC2 Cartridge

Package Size 12.70 cm x 6.00 cm x 1.25 cm

Transistors 28.1 million

Process Technology 6M, 0.18 um, CMOS

Die Size 106 mm2

Core Voltage 1.65 V

I/O Voltage 3.3 V

Typical Power 13 - 24 W (depending on clock speed)

Maximum Power 19.8 - 35.5 W (depending on clock speed)

The bios reports voltages higher than Everest and Sandra

Vcc 5.0V - 5.143

Vcc 3.3V - 3.346

Vcore - 1.680

I did try testing the pins in the molex but not sure I did it right - I set for 12v dc, put the black probe in the ground (black) pinout and the red in the others, in turn - most have no reading, like 0.1 - if the black probe is in the power on (pinout 8) and the red in others they all read 2.86V except for pin 9 which is 5.01v. I tried all manner of combinations and that was the only way I could get any readings at all so I'm hunting for a new power supply - the dirt devil's won't fit and has a different connector.

The string on the top of the slot 1 cartridge is : 550/256/100/1.65v S1

10050647-0421 Phillipines

i m c '99 SL397

A couple more thoughts. You mentioned that it may be underclocked. Check your jumper positions against the manuals submix linked to.

Any unusual entries in autoexec.bat or config.sys? You mentioned the logo is there for a very long time. It's possible it may be hiding error messages. Also look at msdos.sys and see if there's a long boot delay specified. The windows logo can be taken out of the way by adding this line to msdos.sys:

Logo=0

Rick

Jumpers are good, as for unusual entries I'm not sure I'd know what was usual or not lol but I will look at them next and zero the logo. I did do the confirm each step thing, it seemed pretty normal except I don't recall seeing these on my other machines:

"override standard UDF"

override standard VMOUSE

override standard VMCPD and repeats for each of these as well CONFIGMG,VPICD,VFAT,NTKERN,VMM,VCOMM

it didn't take it long to get by them but it did seem to take extra long at this one ptvcd.vxd, and then moved along.

Like Sandra, Everest also insists the AGP is disabled and could be causing performance problems - should I be concerned about this? The graphics are onboard and set to AGP in the bios - I don't know what it wants from me lol!

Thanks again everyone, I'm off to look at those .bat and .sys files and try a the Dlink switch :hello:

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Swapping in and out HDDs and 40-wire or 80-wire cables is unlikely to make performance gains of the order you need.

Not at first but once the main problem sorted, a 80wire cable will still get you faster for sure.

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:hello: If Nothing Else Works=set bios to "Default" and set Motherboard jumpers to reset ,then set them back after Bios boots and resets to factory settings:"Careful" PentiumIII-550's are picky as they need Ram and Power to run as i have one with 640mb/MemoryRam (which helps a lot)250-350watt output powersupply too. :thumbup
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Agree with thydreamwalker. Go with the "lowest" default (F6-Bios) and then the Setup (F-7).

Your BIOS appears to allow for "overrides", so ensure that you "force" the RAM (one at a time) to PC100 in the BIOS. I have a "newer" Soyo (a Duron) that had heartburn with mix-and-match (2x256mb, 1-100mhz and 1-133mhz) and had to put first the 133, force it to 100, then put in the 100. Dunno if this may cause some kind of "power draw" or not (?), but seems unlikely. Try "forcing" it/them to "100".

As stated before, some MoBo's just don't like some RAM sticks and, worse, sometimes mis-reports the actual size. Also, the slot they are placed in (depending on size) is a very important factor, i.e. usually (but not always) the lowest size is placed in the first slot.

I doubt that the on-board hardware is the problem; it appears that there is a problem with the RAM or RAM Cache (L1/L2).

Please note that in the case of RAM, some PC100 are for "newer" boards (post-1999?) and others for "older" (1999 and older?). Had this problem (as did a brother) in an older board. It flat refused to "like" it and had to exchange it. And some boards have the same problem accepting PC133. A final note on the "discrepancy" in the RAM speed (re. SiSoft/Everest) - believe it or not, some RAM manufacturers "program" PC133 to PC100 (yes, it can be done), and these are usually the "newer" style. They just "down-clock" them for sale (kind of like Intel did when testing their CPU's for sale).

addendum to herbalist' post -

For this mainboard, you must use 168-pin, 3.3V memory modules installed with SDRAM memory chips. If you are using a processor that runs on a 100 MHz system bus, you must use memory that operates on a 100 MHz memory bus (PC-100 memory).

re. the HDD -

Support for Bus mastering and UltraDMA 33/66 modes
meaning if the Device Manager says you are using BusMasterIDE drivers (the SIS ones) and the HDD's indicate they are using UDMA, then the HDD's are good for the go.

edit - Ulp! re. Power Supply / CPU Voltages - the BIOS indicates what is going on Pre-boot; Post-boot (in Windows/SiSoft/Everest) may actually show something different (lower) due to "usage" (I "think"?). Perhaps (as thydreamwalker states) the Power Supply just ain't up-to-snuff (could be failing).

HTH

Edited by submix8c
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The string on the top of the slot 1 cartridge is : 550/256/100/1.65v S1 ...

This confirms the other information in your post.

It's a 550MHz / 256kB L2 cache / 100MHz FSB (ie PC100) / 1.65 volts Vcore.

It takes about 15 watts max and most systems using them have a 90W or 145W PSU

.

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If the slowness problem still persists and you haven't figured it out yet, I think you need to re-build this PC again so that you might be able to pinpoint the issue better, from the ground up, methodically. Take out all uneccesary addon cards, put in the most basic memory stick (64mb perhaps), default the BIOS and then reconfig it, and then install only 98SE (i.e. no autopatcher and 3rd party wares). No h/w drivers either until the O/S asks for it. If the slowness, such as the booting, is gone then you will have at least ruled out that your basic h/w configuration shouldn't be at fault. If the slowness is still there with the basic config, then something is indeed still wrong there. Are you sure the benchmarks say this is 500/550 mhz CPU? Also, has it always been this slow since your grandfolks bought it?

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