Shalom Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Here's a problem I've been having for a while.Computer is as follows: Homebrew system with Abit BH6, Celeron 1.4GHz running at 1356MHZ (so slightly underclocked), Matrox G200 AGP, onboard IDE interface, 384Mb RAM. Primary IDE channel is 120 gig Maxtor ST3120026A as master (logical drives C, E-I), Memorex 16X-DDL dvd/rom slave, secondary is Sony DRU-510A master, another identical Maxtor drive as slave (logical drives D and J). Occasionally I connect various external drives via USB (the onboard USB is 1.0, so I installed a USB2.0 card so as not to have to sit and watch my hair grow whilst copying files.)OS is Win98SE, using the shell from Win95 swapped in by 98Lite, back when it still called itself that. If I've left out any vital information, let me know and I'll post it.Now the problem. When the system tries to manipulate really large files, such as copying them from one place to another, or when compacting the databases in Forte Agent, etc., it goes slower and slower, and eventually hangs altogether. It does the same thing if you try to move a large number of smaller files at the same time. [1] Once it hangs, if you do the "three finger salute", sometimes you get the Close Program dialog, but if you try to close stuff it freezes at that point; sometimes it waits for a while and gives you the blue "Warning! The system is either busy or has become unstable", etc., and sometimes it doesn't even get that far and needs the hard reset button. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether it's from one drive to another, internal drive to external, or even within the same drive and directory (e.g. the Agent thing).[1] By "move files" I mean actually copying the data, not simply rewriting the FAT to point to a new directory. So if I move files within one drive, it's fine, but if it has to go to a different partition it hangs. I did notice that if I copy files one at a time, it's less likely to hang than if I select a whole bunch and copy them together.Does anybody have a suggestion as to what causes this and/or what to do about it?Thanks in advance.Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philco Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 ...ShalomAntivir? Or Spybot, TeaTimer? Moved with Total Commander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multibooter Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 When the system tries to manipulate really large files, such as copying them from one place to another... it goes slower and slower, and eventually hangs altogetherDo you get the problem when copying from/to an external USB HDD? If so, do you get the same problem when you use the USB 1.1 connection or a different USB cable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroOS Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It's a MAJOR Microsoft bug in Windows 9x...Microsoft tried their absolute best to sweep in under the carpet...However, it has been fixed.See this topic: http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=84451I'm not sure how it will work with a 98Lite set-up...Also consider many other updates available in packs:See here: http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=95815Many are official Microsoft updated files, but some are member and others contributed fixes.- all well tested by us!Welcome to MSFN One of the last standing outposts for Windows 9x! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Antivir? Or Spybot, TeaTimer? Moved with Total Commander?Currently running NOD32. Thanks for reminding me, that's the kind of thing I meant by "vital information that I may have left out". The problem was much worse before I dumped NAV. (SYMLCSVC.exe would occasionally start eating my entire CPU; killing that or CCAPP.EXE sometimes brought the system back.) I don't know if this is related, or if it's a separate bug in NAV. Symantec hasn't been the same since Peter Norton left...Not running Spybot, Teatimer, etc. I was using Adaware until they decided not to update the W98 version anymore. I don't know what is Total Commander.Do you get the problem when copying from/to an external USB HDD? If so, do you get the same problem when you use the USB 1.1 connection or a different USB cable?Yes, the problem exists on external USB drives as well as internally connected ones. This would seem to rule out a bug in the internal IDE controller firmware, which was my first thought (buffer filling up or some such). The cables are the ones which came with the enclosures, they are all *supposed* to be USB2.0 capable unless the mfgr lied to me.... I can't remember what happened with the internal USB1.0 (not 1.1) connector, I stopped using that a long time ago.It's a MAJOR Microsoft bug in Windows 9x...Microsoft tried their absolute best to sweep in under the carpet...However, it has been fixed.I've read the top post in that thread and skimmed a few of the replies, and I'm not sure that it's the same problem. It has not so much to do with *how many* files are being moved in my case, but more *how much data* is being moved all at once. Four or five really large files (say the size of CD images) can do it. One really humongous file (like compacting Forte Agent .DAT files in binaries groups when you haven't deleted anything in months ) will do it. I will try installing that fix and report back to see if that cured it, but I'm not sanguine about the prospects. Still it can't hurt. My only concern is this, I'm not running SHELL.DLL version 4.72.*, but version 4.10.1998. I think this is the 98 original shell. (Used to run 4.00.950, but too many things broke with that one... now that I come to think of it, I think one of the things that broke was NAV, which ain't here anymore. Maybe I'll go back to that and see if it helps also.)Thanks, Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 I will try installing that fix and report back to see if that cured it, but I'm not sanguine about the prospects. Still it can't hurt.Famous last words.It didn't work. It didn't even start. Got invalid page fault in explorer.exe.It seems that the version of explorer.exe that I'm currently running is 4.00.950, and that doesn't play nice with this new shell32.exe. Went back to shell32.exe version 4.00.1111 and it started up again. Now let's see what else breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroOS Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 ...I'm not sure how it will work with a 98Lite set-up.........It seems that the version of explorer.exe that I'm currently running is 4.00.950, and that doesn't play nice with this new shell32.exe. Went back to shell32.exe version 4.00.1111 and it started up again. Now let's see what else breaks.Hmm... I had reservations about 98Lite and the Shell update...The update only updates SHELL32.DLL, so nothing else has been changed.Because EXPLORER.EXE, SHELL32.DLL, and USER32.DLL are all linked, you would have to use the 98 Explorer/Shell to get the fix.I'm not sure what the solution would be for 98Lite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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