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Windows 9x and its potential future


Offler

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Lets begin with some overview of Win9x family and its specifications:

These systems are with 16/32 hybrid kernels which can theoretically handle even older processors. win9x cannot handle multiple program threads or 64 bit processor capabilities.

System contains as legacy ms-dos 7.0 which is almost 100% compatible with any other ms-dos.

And now the cruel reality:

1. Era of single core/single threaded 32bit processors is ending.

2. Major producers of graphic chips refused to provide new drivers for these systems

3. Software developing is not exactly focused on windows 9x.

and now the good news.

1. Multicore systems still stuck in 32bit era and it will last some time. Adding more cores will bring up new problems in OS designs. For now Microsoft has not presented nothing that can safely handle more than 2 cores without wasting HW capabilities. Quad core systems are surely working, but while OS is still centralized throught kernel thread that thread/core can be easily consumed. There must be developed completely new OS architecture, and vista or win7 are still based on old one...

2. there are driver development kits. new drivers can be created. can this be done even for 3daccelerated graphics?

3. while not exactly focused on win9x still focused on win XP which is quite similar :)

4. single core processors are still being developed and used. win9x is still best choice

so i think that Win9x have another years to work able to accept new hardware and software. I want to thank tihiy for his work, to xeno for his compatibility layer :)

As you maybe know Linux is one of the systems which is evolving over time. Win9x on this forum did the same evolution. win98SE and win98SE+KEX is a huge leap...

do you believe that Win9x can start evolution similar to linux and stay updated over time and later cross barriers which are now our border?

Edited by Offler
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I am happy with my setup for windows98se. Also playing older or old games are better win9. Windows98se will be here forever, because newer hardware can not run older stuff as perfectly as win9x does it.

But i do think its wise to have 2 desktop computers, for with win9x and with XP or vista.

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Also playing older or old games are better win9. Windows98se will be here forever, because newer hardware can not run older stuff as perfectly as win9x does it. But i do think its wise to have 2 desktop computers, for with win9x and with XP or vista.
Yes. An operating system will be used as long as there are applications for it, e.g. games, which are in demand and which run only under this operating system. CP/M and CP/M computers would still be in use today if there were needed applications which run only under CP/M; but I know of none, so the only reason to use/have CP/M is because of nostalgia.

Win95 is dead, except for the nostalgic, because it has no unique applications, at least not for me. Win98SE on the other hand has something unique to offer, which no other opsys can: security and privacy for Internet applications, esp. Windows applications like eMule. Win98SE can be viewed as a security add-on to eMule and Internet browsers.

Part of the instability of eMule under Win98, for example, may be caused by Win98 not understanding the instructions of undesired intruders, causing a hung system. The spyware of the entertainment industry. etc is probably more XP and Vista compatible and unlikely to have been properly tested on old hardware, on an old opsys made fragile by 100+ Win98 apps: buggedy-bug and then the system hangs. I have heard of one instance where Win98 has been protecting eMule on an old dedicated laptop for the past 30.000 hours.

In this sense system crashes and the incompatibility of Win98 may be viewed as something positive. The more compatible you make Win98 with WinXP applications and with new hardware, the less secure your system gets. This is one reason why, for example, one could prefer not to install nusb 3.3, which is a great piece of software: it makes Win98 too compatible with new hardware.

Incompatibility may be preferrable if the objective is greater security. Some people wanted to know everything going on in the Internet, so the Internet was tapped. Maybe some other people in the future may want to know, for example, what's stored on all the USB sticks of the world ... Users of Win98SE would be more difficult targets.

Edited by Multibooter
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Win95 is dead, except for the nostalgic, because it has no unique applications, at least not for me. Win98SE on the other hand has something unique to offer, which no other opsys can: security and privacy for Internet applications, esp. Windows applications like eMule.

There's also security and privacy in Win95. What made you think there wasn't?

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Win95 is dead, except for the nostalgic, because it has no unique applications, at least not for me. Win98SE on the other hand has something unique to offer, which no other opsys can: security and privacy for Internet applications, esp. Windows applications like eMule.
There's also security and privacy in Win95. What made you think there wasn't?
On second thoughts I retract my statement. eMule is also available for Win95 http://sourceforge.net/projects/emule/ If eMule runs Ok on Win95, Win95 may possibly be the most secure opsys for running eMule. What is your experience with eMule under Win95?
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The more compatible you make Win98 with WinXP applications and with new hardware, the less secure your system gets. This is one reason why, for example, one could prefer not to install nusb 3.3, which is a great piece of software: it makes Win98 too compatible with new hardware.

I share your concern, especially in regards to software. For that reason, I've refrained from installing KernelEX on all but one test system until I can find sufficient time to examine the security implications more closely. The potential security issues would concern me a lot less if I could get KernelEX and SSM to coexist.

Win98SE can be viewed as a security add-on to eMule and Internet browsers.

I've never used eMule, but I run Shareaza with 98FE with very good results. In regards to security and privacy, I can definitely agree that a 9X OS is a big asset with such apps. By using an encrypted partition and batch files to load a separate registry, it's possible to completely hide a P2P app (and all the downloads) or any other software and all evidence of its existence on a 9X system. With a little work, this can be done with an entire user profile. Compared to an NT system, there's far fewer places for apps or an OS to hide data, and with DOS the user has what they need to access them. IMO, that's a 9X system's biggest asset.

Rick

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Even with its limits, Windows 98 SE keeps being a solution for many of us old users who don't have any new needs. Microsoft keeps helping us by maintaining its old web pages, even when there are no updates. It is great on the part of Microsoft: several hardware providers have withdrawn their drivers download pages to force users to throw away their existing machines. But there are others who keep supplying not only the old drivers but even new compatible ones.

Somewhere I've read that people may even contract the maintenance of Windows 98 SE with Microsoft if they have money enough to pay for an expensive and special contract. I'm sure there is people who may afford it and in fact does it, because the computer is something very personal and, even when Windows 98 SE is oldfashioned and poor in dealing with hardware resources, if you have used it for many years, you know it by heart and you don't have special needs it is great for you to keep using it instead of learning any new tricks.

Well, I think that for as long as there is a demand for something there will be also an offer, even when Windows 98 SE users in this moment are less than 1% of total.

In fact until now you can find almost anything one way or another, even when in many cases prices are higher than that of not compatible spare parts.

Edited by cannie
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Win9x != Win98SE

My bad sorry :D. But after all if i take a closer look on any Windows since 95 to Vista a see only minor differences when it comes to real work of the system. No matter games, no matter god dammed support, no matter appearance (thanx Tihyi for your uberskin :D ).

Copying, creating texts, images, watching media, internet... what has changed? there will be new versions of course, but the question is what they will bring and what it will cost :)

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With Emule, i can't run it on windows98se for some reason. are you using the lastest version of Shareaza?

I'm using version 2.1, which works great. I see no need to update it.

The last version for 9X is 2.3.1.0. The current version for all other Windows OS is 2.4.

Beware of Shareaza 4 and 5. These are not connected to the true Shareaza. They're entertainment industry sponsored fakes. Shareaza.com is no longer controlled by the Shareaza developers. Hostile takeover.

Details at their new forum. The real Shareaza homepage is http://shareaza.sourceforge.net/?id=home

Rick

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I've worked on eMule for over 5 years, and I did it on a 98SE box.

I did have to use a remote box for compilation, but other than that, I've never had any problems running it. Not one compatibility issue.

Era of single core/single threaded 32bit processors is ending.

That's an exaggeration. The I64 is a clear flop. The backwards-compatible AMD64 is clearly superior. Obvious reasons being that current developers market the existing 32bit architecture which the AMD64 is compatible with, since they don't want to lose that potential pre-existing market. The "upgrade leap" methodology attempted by the I64 is just not practical, and is therefore destined to fail. The existence of a prominent yet incompatible competitor with fair market domination and better compatibility with current software just puts another nail in that coffin.

It is likely, however, that programs requiring AMD64 will begin to emerge with time, but not until I64 is completely deceased, since aiming for that half of the market is no better than aiming strictly for Intel processors. And double-compiling is never a fan-favorite among developers.

However, even when AMD64 requirements begin to emerge, it won't effect 9x, since the processor will handle the instructions while 9x will still run on the 32bit compatibility layer of the AMD64 CPU.

The multi-core thing, though, that will have an impact, but only on performance. Compatibility will remain unaffected.

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I've worked on eMule for over 5 years, and I did it on a 98SE box. I did have to use a remote box for compilation, but other than that, I've never had any problems running it. Not one compatibility issue.
Yes, eMule is fully compatible with Win98. The right setup though is tricky (router, Control Panel -> Network settings, firewall settings, not getting low IDs). For good performance, running eMule on a dedicated computer helps, even if it's an old box, also 512MB of RAM, and a direct cable connection to your router (no WLAN, if you have an old router/WLAN-card).

eMule is actually my tool of choice to identfy the Win98 compatibility of OTHER programs: if, after running another program, eMule crashes within the next 2 hours, it means to me that this OTHER program has serious Win98 compatibility issues. Good examples are Acrobat 5 or Firefox 2.

With eMule you can also predict whether Win98 support of a piece of software is about to stop: if eMule hangs or crashes quickly with another program, it may indicate that this other program had too many Win98 bugs for their programmers to handle, so they just give up, no more new release for Win98. Good examples are again Acrobat 5 and Firefox 2

Edited by Multibooter
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