Win-98 cd, product key, and the EULA

**98-Guy** · August 22, 2008

With regard to copyright law and the windows-98 EULA, I'm asking if there is a specific Microsoft white-paper or document that can answer the following question(s).

Does the law (or Microsoft) deem it illegal to:

a) copy a windows-98 CD and give it to someone else, or

b) to actually _use_ a copied CD to install windows-98 (even if you are using a product-key that is yours or that you purchased at one point or another)

I'm asking because it's come up in other forums where someone has a product-key (or knows what the product-key is on their current PC) but they don't have an actual win-98 CD, so they are asking questions like how they can get their hands on a CD so they can re-install win-98.

Perhaps the main question is -> is the product key essentially the license, and a win-98 CD (an actual MS cd or a copy) is simply the delivery mechanism for the software, and that it's the actual usage of the software that is governed by law. So as long as I'm using a product key that I own, it doesn't matter from what CD I installed win-98, or how I came to have the CD, or who gave it to me, or even if it's a copy and who copied it.

I'm simply looking for the "official" answer to this question so I can tell others what the answer is. I'm not looking for win-98 CD's and I'm not looking for product keys and I'm not asking anyone to tell me where to get them.

**thydreamwalker** · August 22, 2008

"Definitely" Handle This Topic With Caution !;It's 98Se ,but @copyright rights are still in effect="Do Not Sell"OEM98SE-version ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not as full CDROM!.....or with key!A "Gift from a friend" should not be a problem though....if you know what i mean

As many older MoBo's i have acquired have full Windows Versions 95,98,98SE,xp,2000 with Full CDROM in system on Harddrive with "Key=included"

So its a tough call?....Just do not post info on this MSFN Site....okay

**Ponch** · August 22, 2008

I'd say

a) no, or very on the edge, only as replacement for one he lost/broke (making it "his" backup for personal use).

B) no, unless you actually owned the original cd at any point. (you have to purchase the cd and the key)

But I imagine one should not be able to purchase a key without a CD so the key can serve as evidence that you had a cd at some point.

Can be discused of course.

**eXtremeDX** · August 23, 2008

yep, he is not posting anything related to warez, he wants to know when does it become warez

**thydreamwalker** · August 23, 2008

me thinks it should be up to the P.C. Owner -If you "Own the P.C. and the CDROM/and Key its in your Property;Usage Rights and the Key could be "Leased Legally"<Carefully!!!>,depending on "How" the O.S. Software was/is, acquired/received,whether as a "Gift" or "Previously Installed By a Close Relative/Friend" or purchased at a "GarageSale"???

Copy for Personal/family/relative use is okay?!...but.....read "EULA's small print carefully!!!"

**eXtremeDX** · August 23, 2008

come on, it's illegal to sell copies of it.

technocally it's "illegal" to install the OS with same CD and license serial on two or three PCs, but who's gonna respect that?? nobody!!!!!, if you bought a win98 CD and have three old computers, you wont buy another two CDs.

It's illegal to spread your serial key/number, because the CD itself can't be usid without it. In fact, what you bought to MS was the serial key, if you want to use the same CD on sevral machines, you'll need to buy another serial

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omg mah english sux

**submix8c** · August 23, 2008

I have to agree with Ponch... Notice that the scenario provides a "Yes" under certain circumstances.

I also have (as thydreamwalker states) also had occasion to have purchased or been given older PC's and as a necessity used my Original Copy for a reinstall using the original PC's key. Back then, the OEM CD's were "generic" copies with a unique key provided for the given machine.

And, won't swear to this but, the EULA does allow for a one-PC "Backup Copy" in case the Original is destroyed, stolen, or rendered unreadable.

**98-Guy** · August 24, 2008

I was originally asking if there was anything posted on Microsoft.com that would answer these questions.

You would think that the precise legality of what is allowable would be spelled out somewhere.

But I'm still not sure what the consensus is here.

Given that someone (say, person A) wants to re-install win-98, and knows what their original product-key is, but they don't have a win-98 CD, then does it matter how they get their hands on a win-98 CD - even if they download it from a torrent?

Or is the person who *provides* the CD (either physically or electronically) violating the EULA or copyright law, but *not* the recipient?

A year or so ago I had a lengthy argument on usenet regarding this hypothetical situation:

Say I'm walking down the street and I come across a PC that's been put at the roadside as garbage. The PC has win-98 installed on it (doesn't matter which version of windows, but sake of argument say it's win-98). Say I take the computer home (items placed at the curb for garbage pickup is usually deemed to be public domain in most places).

If I examine the hard drive (or turn the system on) and discover the product key, do I now "own" the license to that particular product key and can use that computer without violating the EULA? Does it matter that the original owner did not "officially" transfer the license to me by way of either verbal permission or by knowingly giving me (or selling) the PC to me? And now that I know the product key, can I use it to install / re-install win-98 on another machine (assuming the product key is only used on one working PC at a time) ?

I was basically arguing that once a license is sold by Microsoft (by way of revealing a product key) and if that key is used on only one working PC at a time, then no violation is taking place if an "abandoned" product key is discovered or found and then put back into use.

Comments?

**herbalist** · August 24, 2008

And, won't swear to this but, the EULA does allow for a one-PC "Backup Copy" in case the Original is destroyed, stolen, or rendered unreadable.

From the EULA on 98FE:

If Manufacturer has not included a back-up copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT with the COMPUTER, you may make a single back-up copy of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. You may use the back-up copy solely for archival purposes. Back-up Utility. If the SOFTWARE PRODUCT includes a Microsoft back-up utility, you may use the utility to make the single back-up copy. After the single back-up copy is made, the backup utility will be permanently disabled. Except as expressly provided in this EULA, you may not otherwise make copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, including the printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE.

**jaclaz** · August 24, 2008

Comments?

Sure.

Good comments?

Maybe.

My personal take on the matter, not necessarily legally sound and definitely NOT in every country.

The Microsoft (as most software Licenses) EULA's is a contract where:

1) You pay an amount of money to be authorized to USE a software within a number of "set rules"

2) The Vendor grants you this right in exchange for money

Besides the fact that in my personal opinion, at least in Italy and possibly in all EU, this contract is hardly enforceable as it is NOT signed by the two parts, thus being potentially void of all effects, often it is worded in such a way that, expecially for consumer market, it violates basic rights of information, as a recent sentence has stated regarding OEM XP:

http://www.msfn.org/board/Not-sure-why-thi...ng-t115968.html

the actual media containing the software may or may not be part of the deal, see the old U.S. class action against HP:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16343

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.co...settlement.com/

The "standard" Win98SE Eula:

MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98 SECOND EDITION
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE

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PAS DE RESPONSABILITÉ POUR LES DOMMAGES INDIRECTS, ACCESSOIRES ET AUTRES. Dans toute la mesure permise par la législation en vigueur, Microsoft et ses fournisseurs ne sont en aucun cas responsables de tout dommage spécial, indirect, accessoire, moral ou exemplaire quel qu'il soit (y compris, mais sans limitation, les dommages entraînés par la perte de bénéfices ou la perte d'information confidentielle ou autre, l'interruption des affaires, les préjudices corporels, la perte de confidentialité, le défaut de remplir toute obligation y compris les obligations de bonne foi et de diligence raisonnable, la négligence, et toute autre perte pécuniaire ou autre perte de quelque nature que ce soit) découlant de, ou de toute autre manière lié à, l'utilisation ou l'impossibilité d'utiliser le PRODUIT LOGICIEL, la prestation ou la non-prestation des Services d'assistance, ou autrement en vertu de ou relativement à toute disposition de cette convention, même en cas de faute, délit ou quasi-délit (y compris la négligence), reponsabilité stricte, manquement au contrat ou à une garantie de la part de Microsoft ou de tout fournisseur, même si Microsoft et ses fournisseurs ont été avisés de la possibilité de tels dommages.

LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÉ ET RECOURS
Malgré tout dommage que vous pourriez encourir pour quelque raison que ce soit (y compris, sans limitation, tous les dommages mentionnés ci-dessus et tous les dommages directs et généraux), la seule responsabilité de Microsoft et de ses fournisseurs en vertu de toute disposition de cette convention et votre unique recours en regard de tout ce qui précède (sauf dans le cas où Microsoft choisit de réparer ou de remplacer conformément aux termes de la Garantie Limitée) sont limités au plus élevé des montants suivants: soit (a) le montant que vous avez payé pour cette licence, soit (B) un montant équivalent à cinq dollars U.S. (5.00 $U.S.). Les limitations et exclusions ci-dessus (y compris le présent paragraphe et les deux paragraphes précédents) s'appliquent dans toute la mesure permise par la législation en vigueur, et ce même si leur application a pour effet de priver un recours de son essence.

LÉGISLATION APPLICABLE
Si vous avez acquis ce PRODUIT LOGICIEL au Canada, sauf lorsqu'expressément prohibé par la loi locale, cette convention est régie par les lois en vigueur dans la province d'Ontario, Canada. Pour tout différend qui pourrait découler des présentes, vous reconnaissez la compétence des tribunaux fédéraux et provinciaux siégeant à Toronto, Ontario. Si vous avez des questions concernant cette licence, ou si vous désirez communiquer avec Microsoft pour quelque raison que ce soit, veuillez contacter la succursale Microsoft desservant votre pays, ou écrire à : Microsoft Sales Information Center - One Microsoft Way - Redmond, WA 98052-6399.
0495 Part No. 64358

As I see it, unless you violate ANY other applicable law while procuring it, where the actual software comes from is not a problem, as long as you have a Certificate of Authenticity or the "sticker" on your machine.

Besides the theoretical validity of (lack of it) of the EULA, one needs to think about the practical parts:

1) windows CD's are not numbered, nor "traceable" to an individual

2) not Microsoft, nor any OEM have a record of names of people to whom the software has been sold to

3) the sticker applied on the physical body of the PC is proof enough of the genuinity of the software license accompanying it, though that key number may activate ANY number of specific CD's (if OEM) or generic ones (if Retail)

4) the accidental loss or destruction of the CD, or however the temporary or permanent inability to produce the original media is not grounds enough to void your rights, as the making of a backup copy is allowed by the License

5) there is no possible way to determine whether this backup copy was made from the original media shipped with the EULA or from any of the millions of similar ones

This said, I personally:

1) have NEVER in my life bought a PC which did not came with an original, OEM or Retail, install media, and every time I was offered a computer with pre-installed or "recovery only CD/DVD" I declined the offer, and wrote to the local and national representative of the firm to complain about this in my view unfair practice, even obtaining in one case, the offer of a "real" install CD free of charge

2) have ALWAYS made first thing a backup copy of the install CD, storing the original one together with it's Certificate of Authenticity and invoice in a presumably safe place, always using the backup copy for re-installs

3) always photocopied the back of laptops (with the sticker - that normally becomes unreadable after a few months of field use) together with the front page of the local newspaper and the invoice, storing this copy together with original media and CoA

4) always transferred, in writing, the above items to the buyer when selling away old PC's, even when I donated a few to the local charity

(better be safe than sorry)

jaclaz

**jaclaz** · August 24, 2008