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speedemon86

Trimming down a less than reliable XP system

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Oh boy, I had missed that post...

Oh Yes - you are correct - I totally agree - a substandard, under-powered processor, very minimum amount of Ram that's under-quality, MAYBE last year's HD Drive model - weak speed, FSB, and storage capacity - weak Optical Drive: CD read / burn maybe, no DVD Burn, no HD, no Flat Panel Monitor included, crap Video Card, crap Sound Card, crap Graphics Card, crap Network Card, no Speakers, just a 101 keyboard, a roller ball Mouse and Pad - and a whole lot of spyware / trialware...

call eMachines today!

To purchase a home system to run Vista correctly and properly you will pay in Chicago anywhere from $950.00 - $1,250.00 plus tax complete - or for a couple of hundred more for a few "extras" - this is a far cry from simply a tune-up or an upgrade...

Wow. You almost sound like you even believe what you're saying! Amazing.

One quick example: $324 will get you: a Dell Vostro 200, with a e2180 processor and 2GB of RAM. 16x DVD writer, a 80GB SATA drive and everything else. Everyday's normal price, no rebates or anything like that.

Substandard, under-powered processor? The E2180 would be a huge upgrade here. Very minimum amount of RAM? There's 2GB standard (4x what he's got). No HD? It has a modern SATA HD. No DVD burner? It has a perfectly good DVD writer. Yep, you're wrong on *all* counts, and on a box that's 3/4 of the price you'd charge. That box will run Vista just fine too, and it's not an eMachines (and it even includes Vista). It's vastly better in every aspect than his current box. Yet, you'd charge $450 to tweak that P3 instead? Either some customers are absolute morons (don't mind paying WAY too much for "tweaks" that take 5 minutes to apply), or you just like ripping them off big time. There's no way you need to spend "$950 to $1250" for a box that can run Vista well (and certainly not in the USA), unless the case has to be made of solid gold or something.

Also, you say they wouldn't get a monitor, speakers, keyboard and such out of it, but do you include those for free when you "tweak" one of those ghetto old P3's? Right, I didn't think so either. Yeah, others should feel silly :lol:

Again, we have another person posting who cannot take 5 minutes and read the very first post - or understand the reports given in the first post

Again, we have another person posting who cannot take 5 minutes and understand the point had nothing to do with the first post, but just charging people a LOT for doing them a disservice.

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Here's another one, straight off of NewEgg...

  • Case : CoolerMaster Elite 330 - $39.99
  • Power Supply : Antec EarthWatts 380W - $29.99
  • Motherboard : Foxconn P45A-S - $119.99
  • Processor : Intel E2180 - $69.99
  • Memory : 2GB OCZ DDR2-800 - $42.99
  • Video Card : EVGA 7200GS - $29.99
  • Optical Drive : Pioneer DVR-216D - $29.99
  • Hard Drive : 320GB Western Digital SE16 - $64.99

Total cost : $427.92

More then enough for anyone's average use.

Edited by jcarle

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You really have to stop, you are embarrassing yourself! :thumbdown

The Dell Vostro series is for small businesses ONLY - meaning that unless he has a State Tax ID Number on file that's already been confirmed with Dell's Small Business Sales Division, he could not purchase a Vostro from Dell.

Besides, what your describing is junk:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/136090/dell_vostro_200.html

Quote: Price When Reviewed: $1198

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2165031,00.asp

Quote: $899 Direct

I would suggest going to Dell's website, clicking on "For Home - Desktops and All-In-Ones" and then click on the Inspiron 530 Icon - and then on the right - click the green button - "build yours" - starting at $749.00 - (after $200.00 Instant Savings) and learn a little something 'bout a little something!

Even if you started on the left with the cheaper $279.00 setup - which is still junk if you want to run Vista correctly - you can easily get it up to $850.00 - plus tax - not including a printer.

Don't forget to add the 22 inch Flat Panel Monitor with the Webcam and Mic - that way he could have a few extra background services running! :yes:

Let me guess: You want to replace his current junk that is still usable today and will be still usable for a while longer (with the proper attention and care) with junk that is bottom-line barely usable today in which that junk will become outdated unusable junk sometime in the near future?

I've proved my point again. :P

Stop while you're ahead.

poolsharkzz

PS. Microsoft's Advice on How to Speed Up Vista - Direct from the Horse's Mouth:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en

* Yes - There's even a section or two in there about disabling unnecessary services and shutting-off visual effects to speed up system performance! Wow!!!! :thumbup

Th3_uN1Qu3 - Thank you for the registry entries - I'll look at it more closer tomorrow!

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You really have to stop, you are embarrassing yourself! :thumbdown

I see you enjoy talking to yourself!

Like I said, that was just an example. There's plenty of decent PCs from pretty much any company out there for dirt cheap. And you can build yourself one for cheap too, like jcarle said.

Besides, what your describing is junk

No it's not (nevermind you don't say how). It's certainly a million times better than those poor P3's you tweak.

And if one looks for deals like most OEMs and stores have year-round, or buy parts taking advantage of weekly specials, it can be even cheaper.

There's tons of sub-$500 PCs that will run Vista just fine -- including jcarle's example. No need to spend crazy amounts like you like to pretend. Besides, who said it had to run Vista in the first place?

Don't forget to add the 22 inch Flat Panel Monitor with the Webcam and Mic

More nonsense (we're getting used to that by now). You charge them $450 for 5 minutes of work, to make their P3 perhaps 5% faster. Whereas if they spend that same $450 on hardware, they'd have like a 1000% boost in speed. In either case, you're not getting a monitor (again, unless you give those for free?).

I've proved my point again. :P

:lol: :lol: :lol: We got us a comedian! You're only proving one thing here (also by constantly using "Micro$oft" like most 15 year olds), as jcarle already stated before.

Stop while you're ahead.

Talking to yourself again eh?

If I could, I'd give you the "most wrong ever" award. I've NEVER seen someone spout so much nonsense on this forum before in any thread... I very much doubt you work with computers, even at the A+ level (especially when your story doesn't even sound plausible, charging $450 for 5 minutes of "tweaks" that every 15 year old knows, especially when you look at the average IT wages these days)

Edited by crahak

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I'll give you an example of how "tweaks" are costing a company more money and time (i.e. my time).

I've been asked to run IT for a small decor company (they do the decor for conferences, weddings, etc etc). They've got four systems around the office, of varying age and performance. I'll start with the "slowest" since it's most relevant to this discussion.

Remember all those people who swore that FAT32 was faster than NTFS? Look back to threads from when XP was first released and people migrated from Win98 to XP. You'll find countless reviews, threads, and articles saying that NTFS is slow and "bloated", etc etc. The previous IT setup the partitions on this system as follows:

C: - 1GB FAT - for pagefile

D: - 4GB FAT32 - for Windows installation, some programs

E: - 8GB FAT32 - for data and programs that didn't fit on D:

Now... the main problem - there's a measly 200MB of free space on D:, since the twit wasn't smart enough to allow enough space for the system. Secondly - why would you put the pagefile on a separate FAT partition? You're increasing the disk head travel time, slowing things down greatly. Finally, they're FAT/FAT32 partitions.

The guy had disabled the Network Location Awareness service, bringing up this exact problem for computers connected to the network. Honestly - why would you disable this?

I would suggest going to Dell's website, clicking on "For Home - Desktops and All-In-Ones" and then click on the Inspiron 530 Icon - and then on the right - click the green button - "build yours" - starting at $749.00 - (after $200.00 Instant Savings) and learn a little something 'bout a little something!

Even if you started on the left with the cheaper $279.00 setup - which is still junk if you want to run Vista correctly - you can easily get it up to $850.00 - plus tax - not including a printer.

Sure, I could also start taking any computer hardware and max out the specs to raise up the price. Let's all go configure Apple Mac Pro's to over $20K!!! jcarle's setup is still less than half of what you're suggesting, and would still blow it out of the water performance wise. It's pretty much exactly what I built the above mentioned company to replace one of their reception computers. Oh, and dispite the "low end components", it's possible to run Vista on that without too much hassle. My mid-line Inspiron 6000 from two and a half years ago runs Vista without a hitch.

@Th3_uN1Qu3 - If your programs don't work properly in Vista, you should also be talking to your devs to update their software. You're talkingabout making it all Microsoft's fault, like ZA tries to do here. Filezilla is one of the examples that I give to all my friends. The XML settings version threw up UAC warnings left right and center, since you're trying to write files to the Program Files directory. There are countless documents out there, direct from Microsoft to developers, telling them to save settings in AppData or in the user's registry (HKCU - not HKLM). Poor programming is the cause for most UAC prompts out there.

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Heck, I had to rewrite part of my Windows Updates Downloader to fit within the Vista development guidelines, why should I start complaining and ranting and raving about how it's all Vista's fault because it won't let me store strings in the HKLM registry keys without throwing up in UAC. Vista's done nothing wrong, I'm the one who needed to change the way I store my application settings.

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I'll give you an example of how "tweaks" are costing a company more money and time (i.e. my time).

I've been asked to run IT for a small decor company (they do the decor for conferences, weddings, etc etc). They've got four systems around the office, of varying age and performance. I'll start with the "slowest" since it's most relevant to this discussion.

Remember all those people who swore that FAT32 was faster than NTFS? Look back to threads from when XP was first released and people migrated from Win98 to XP. You'll find countless reviews, threads, and articles saying that NTFS is slow and "bloated", etc etc. The previous IT setup the partitions on this system as follows:

C: - 1GB FAT - for pagefile

D: - 4GB FAT32 - for Windows installation, some programs

E: - 8GB FAT32 - for data and programs that didn't fit on D:

Now... the main problem - there's a measly 200MB of free space on D:, since the twit wasn't smart enough to allow enough space for the system. Secondly - why would you put the pagefile on a separate FAT partition? You're increasing the disk head travel time, slowing things down greatly. Finally, they're FAT/FAT32 partitions.

By putting the pagefile on the C: drive he put it in the fastest area of the drive. Having the pagefile all over the drive and fragged into a million pieces is slower than that. I do not agree with FAT32 usage on a XP system however.

The guy had disabled the Network Location Awareness service, bringing up this exact problem for computers connected to the network. Honestly - why would you disable this?

The Network Location Awareness service? I never had a problem with my connection icons getting stuck to "Acquiring network address", since i have them hidden anyway. If you know your connection is fine, why have those blinking thingies there all of the time?

@Th3_uN1Qu3 - If your programs don't work properly in Vista, you should also be talking to your devs to update their software. You're talkingabout making it all Microsoft's fault, like ZA tries to do here. Filezilla is one of the examples that I give to all my friends. The XML settings version threw up UAC warnings left right and center, since you're trying to write files to the Program Files directory. There are countless documents out there, direct from Microsoft to developers, telling them to save settings in AppData or in the user's registry (HKCU - not HKLM). Poor programming is the cause for most UAC prompts out there.

UAC? Well, i thought of it as a good idea. But when i saw it throwing prompts about confirming control panel actions, i said to hell with it and got rid of it promptly. In which way a million nags make the system more secure? Inexperienced users are going to click Yes anyway.

And... what if there are no more devs updating that software? AVIPreview is no longer under development, and my programming knowledge isn't enough to fix it, besides, my favorite debugger (OllyDbg) does not work in Vista! Also i have some older games that need the ADPCM codec (which worked fine under XP and Vista 32). Who's gonna patch those? Well, me. I started coding my own patches for those games, the progress is relatively slow but i reached the point where i know what i have to do, just have to finish the patch code (i work in Python).

Of course poor programming is the cause of most errors. The point is that those "poorly programmed apps" have worked for years on subsequent Windows versions and they suddenly stopped working on Vista 64.

Edited by Th3_uN1Qu3

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By putting the pagefile on the C: drive he put it in the fastest area of the drive. Having the pagefile all over the drive and fragged into a million pieces is slower than that.

It's defragged alright, but it still increases head travel by a lot beteen any files and the pagefile, also slowing things down a lot. It can be on your usual partition with your OS, and not be scattered all over the place (defrag works nice).

As for your handful of app compatibility problems, I'm not so quick at blaming Vista.

Like I said before, VirtualDub & VirtualDubMod work perfectly here. AviPreview is working fine too.

And from OllyDbg's home page:

OllyDbg is a 32-bit assembler level analysing debugger for Microsoft® Windows®

Emphasis mine. And you're using a 64 bit OS, and blaming the OS for compatibility problems? (especially for something like a debugger) I don't use it often personally, but I had no issues on Vista x86.

Looks like most of your problems are related to the transition to x64 (you also mentioned your older games worked fine on Vista x86), and not Vista itself.

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It's defragged alright, but it still increases head travel by a lot beteen any files and the pagefile, also slowing things down a lot. It can be on your usual partition with your OS, and not be scattered all over the place (defrag works nice).

By putting it onto the OS drive it'll be after the OS files, there will still be head travel between the OS files and the pagefile, and on top of that it's also in a slower area of the drive. And it'll still not be any closer to any other files...

Looks like most of your problems are related to the transition to x64 (you also mentioned your older games worked fine on Vista x86), and not Vista itself.

Well, partly yes. But Vista x86 is SLOW AS HELL, and can't use more than 3.25GB RAM on my machine. What i don't get is if WOW64 has the same files as Vista x86 (which it does), then why doesn't it work for 32-bit apps the same way Vista x86 did?

As about OllyDbg, yes, it's 32-bit. But how the heck am i supposed to debug 32-bit programs with a 64-bit debugger?

What's funny is that those games were coded in Visual C++ 6.0 and use the Microsoft ADPCM codec. Microsoft not supporting programs written with their own software. That's funny.

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By putting it onto the OS drive it'll be after the OS files

Hmmm, no. No defragmenter I've used in a lot of years is that horribly bad. It'll place it somewhere decent. Companies who write defragmenters just might know a bit about file placement, they only make a living out of it ;)

there will still be head travel between the OS files and the pagefile

Some, but definitely nowhere near as much as having it on another partition.

and on top of that it's also in a slower area of the drive

The inner part is somewhat faster, but when you increase the amount of seek drastically for every sector you need, you're not gaining anything, much the inverse.

And it'll still not be any closer to any other files...

Except, it is. Unless you use the worst defragmenter I've ever heard of.

But Vista x86 is SLOW AS HELL, and can't use more than 3.25GB RAM on my machine.

I don't have any speed issues with Vista x86 myself, it's just as fast as XP on my box. As for not seeing all your RAM as you hit 4GB or more, sure, that's an issue. And the fix to that is x64, but yes, the transition isn't always smooth because of various issues (notice I'm not running x64 yet?) However, the x64 transition not being as smooth as you like doesn't make Vista itself "incompatible" (you'd have the same kind of issues with the 64 bit versions of Win XP or 2003)

Microsoft not supporting programs written with their own software. That's funny.

It's not really that funny, nor surprising. Eventually they phase out some old things, and stop supporting them. In this case, a codec seemingly. With x64, they also stopped supporting other stuff, like the Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0 ODBC provider, or providing components like ntvdm.

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What i don't get is if WOW64 has the same files as Vista x86 (which it does), then why doesn't it work for 32-bit apps the same way Vista x86 did?

As about OllyDbg, yes, it's 32-bit. But how the heck am i supposed to debug 32-bit programs with a 64-bit debugger?

You can't fit a fridge into a car but you can fit a dishwasher into a truck. How does this not make sense to you?

64-bit applications are aware of and are capable of handling 32-bit, but how can you expect 32-bit apps to handle 64-bit when there wasn't even such a thing back when most of this stuff was written?

"One common recurring problem is that some programmers assume that pointers have the same length as some other data type. These programmers assume they can transfer quantities between these data types without losing information. Those assumptions happen to be true on some 32-bit machines (and even some 16-bit machines), but they are no longer true on 64-bit machines. The C programming language and its descendant C++ make it particularly easy to make this sort of mistake. In most programming environments on 32-bit machines, pointers, "int" types, and "long" types are all 32 bits wide. However, in many programming environments on 64-bit machines, "int" variables are still 32 bits wide, but "long"s and pointers are 64 bits wide." - Wikipedia

Again, how is that Vista's fault?

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Here's another one, straight off of NewEgg...

  • Motherboard : Foxconn P45A-S - $119.99
  • Processor : Intel E2180 - $69.99
  • Memory : 2GB OCZ DDR2-800 - $42.99
  • Video Card : EVGA 7200GS - $29.99

Total cost : $427.92

More then enough for anyone's average use.

OMG!!! That is almost better than what I have to use everyday! :o

I have an E2140 Bsel modded to 2143mHz

A (currently burned out) Motherboard It was a super cheap ECS P.O.S! That Foxconn is ALOT better than what I had

And a gigabyte 7300se

With 2 gigs DDR2 667 ram.

Hell that is better... :(

Edited by Kelsenellenelvian

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You guys still haven't given up yet, have you?

I mean, look at the score, if I was in YOUR shoes, I would have left the field long ago!

That's Okay, I am enjoying this! Why? I have to be honest, I've learned a thing or two (from Mr. Snrub - disable via Bios - I've never thought of that!) and I am sure you have....

Let's respond to a few statements:

One quick example: Dell Vostro 200 This was not a viable example, as I pointed out. You failed here - the low-end and high-end examples I pointed out are real world examples of a home-based system that I would only deal with. I'm sorry, what you described is junk.

The e2180 processor: Junk for my uses. While I will agree 100% that this processor would be a HUGE upgrade versus his PIII - It is not what I would recommend for Vista Home Premium or especially Vista Ultimate - I would not recommend these Operating Systems in the first place - I am not getting into why except when Microsoft had to release a 15 page PDF File explaining how to "tweak" performance out of a default Vista setup AND change the the so-called "Minimum System Requirements" for Vista - Foobar!!!!

When I am recommending hardware to a customer, I am not only looking at today, but I am also looking at tomorrow - meaning that I am looking at not today's OS (Vista) but tomorrow's OS (Windows 7) AND looking ahead at the next version of Windows (Windows "8"???).

Why? System hardware should last 8-10 years at a minimum - if you take care of it.

Hell, I have a box here that was built in May, 1996! (and still going strong!)

If you purchase top-end "today", "tomorrow" all you need to do is purchase the latest updated OS.

If the customer is dead set on an OS upgrade - then it's either Vista Home Premium or Vista Ultimate.

I have never had anyone ask for Vista Business. I've had very few ask for Vista in general!

Will the e2180 processor run Windows 7 well? or run Windows "8" well? - No, I really doubt it, not if Micro$oft keeps with it's history of bloated, buggy, newly released operating systems.

Will the e2180 processor run XP SP3 well? YES

What about the e2180 processor running Vista Home Premium or Vista Ultimate well?

"Without too much hassle" is too much hassle for me - or my customers!

"Systems straight off of NewEgg: I would NEVER use NewEgg or any other website like NewEgg for one reason - no one year support warranty as Dell offers. I do not want to deal with the daily drama.

Let's look at those prices in "my" real world:

If I went down that route, I would have to place a 25% mark-up on all components, add in the cost of shipping charges First Class from southern California, not to mention my hourly rates for putting the components together and setting up the system complete with security and maintenance programs, tweaking the security, internet connection, cleaning out the registry, disabling unnecessary services, slimming it down a bit, a delivery charge (trip charge) to the customers home, a set-up / installation charge, State and Local Taxes, and a basic overview "basic training" of what I did to their new system...

and we still haven't added in the extra costs of a decent printer! Are ya learning something yet?

For Chicago, the 3rd largest market in North America - in the neighborhoods that I mostly do business in - Gold Coast, Magnificent Mile, Streeterville, Lincoln Park, Down-Town, Up-Town, North & South Loop, Lake Shore Drive, Hollywood, Lake Forest, Highland Park, etc. This is not Canada nor is this Idaho -

My typical customer is 45+ years old, lives in a 500k (or more) home, usually drives a 70k car to his 55-60 hour per week senior management position, has 3 children and a "trophy" wife with fake boobs who loves to shop.

Your quotes of $427.92 and $324.00 and "sub-$500 PCs" are not my "real world" examples - not here in my market - not here for the majority of my customers - not here by a long shot -

They EXPECT to pay the amounts I describe - otherwise they feel they are not getting QUALITY - like I said: "junk".

I could only imagine what would happen to me if I sent one of them a box of components!

"Besides, who said it had to run Vista in the first place?" Are we now going backwards on the OS as well? You look forward to the next and future Operating System, as I already explained.

"especially when you look at the average IT wages these days" Best Buy's "Geek Squad" here in Chicago charge $150.00 per hour for home service, not to mention the $95.00 "trip charge"...

You see, I think you are equating your general area of Canada or Idaho with the rest of the world and not thinking that maybe things are a bit different in Chicago versus the coffee shop where you at!

Look here:

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouth...IT10000048.html

and here:

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouts...amp;x=0&y=0

http://salary.monster.com/salarywizard/lay...amp;x=0&y=0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Loop

"I'll give you an example of how "tweaks" are costing a company more money and time" Now here is a real world example! Even though this example has no bearing on a home-based system - you are right, every XP system I have ever dealt with I converted it over to NTFS right away- it's part of my tweaking - and I find 9-10 of the systems set with the "default settings" of FAT32 - just another reason to tweak!

The Network Location Awareness Service for a home based system should be set to "Manual".

"that every 15 year old knows" Most 15 year olds are too busy "tweaking" their profiles on MySpace, Facebook, and YouTube - or creating cool Visual Styles.

UAC? is the biggest mistake Vista has - a million nags does not mean "more secure". Junk.

"Oh boy, I had missed that post..." This is because you do not READ the posts.

In closing, I was going to give you guys a general breakdown of my business, services offered, and how to go about it - giving you folks a way to effectively use some of that energy...

Instead I am going to suggest that you get off the couch that your brother left to you as a "hand-me-down" before he went off to college and instead of you joining him, you decided to spend a few years living in your parent's basement - go to the coffee-house, "sip on a latte", use the free WiFi, and tally up the score...

poolsharkzz - 1000 - perfect score! Well, I'm biased here, but I am still waiting for someone to tell me if his Uncle's system NEEDS any of the services I listed.

Th3_uN1Qu3 - 995 - I'm really impressed! and your what, only 18? - smart kid - some of you should take his lead.

Mr. Snrub - 998 - I have a feeling that you holding back on a wealth of information - sorry the debate became quite "unhealthy" - I didn't throw the first punch.

Zxian - 0 - "NEVER disable the DNS client service" - sorry, that and those out of the blue statements before reading the first posts really hurt you.

jcarle - 25 - +500! - the NewEgg quote really got you - bonus for giving solid advice to Th3_uN1Qu3 and a few bonus points for trying to play ball in my court without knowing anything about the court you're playing in..

crahak - 10 - +750! - Vostro 200 and "dirt cheap" is where you went wrong - bonus for looking a bit like Bret Hart's old tag-team partner - Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart - miss them guys!

Kelsenellenelvian - 0 - +250 - sorry, but you came in way too late in the 4th quarter to make any difference, but points for trying.

* Note to all:

I don't walk around my neighborhood tweaking XP installs either - I just was smart enough to make a living out of it!

Bashing what I do or how I do it or where I do it isn't going to make any bit of difference - I'm still gonna get paid! Are you?

"Queue" Donald Trump's theme song.... "Money, Money, Money, Money..... Money!!!!" :thumbup

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"Queue" Donald Trump's theme song.... "Money, Money, Money, Money..... Money!!!!" :thumbup

It's called For the Love of Money by The O'jays, you id***.

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This was not a viable example, as I pointed out.

Which again was just a random example, which totally seems to go over your head.

You failed here - the low-end and high-end examples I pointed out are real world examples of a home-based system that I would only deal with. I'm sorry, what you described is junk.

Yes, you can only have the low-end as in a super old P3, or a box over $1000, nothing in between will do! And yet again, you fail to explain why it's "junk".

The e2180 processor: Junk for my uses.

Junk? Are you out of your mind? It's a great CPU. I'm actually using a E2160 myself (OC'es quite nice, dirt cheap). What's junk about it? It's a big seller, lots of performance for not a lot of $. It's more than sufficient for 99% of daily tasks. I can run plenty of VMs at once, use photoshop, visual studio 2008, CAD apps, firefox, play & encode high 1080p video (in x264) and everything else I can think of. It's not junk by any stretch of the imagination.

System hardware should last 8-10 years at a minimum - if you take care of it.

And you're sorely mistaken here. That reminds me of that $3000 P133 I bought in '95, yes, it was a monster for the time, but only a couple years after, a P2 that only cost half the price TOTALLY slaughtered it. Expecting a computer to last 10 years minimum is crazy talk -- that would mean still using that P1 in 2005 and beyond (whereas it already sucked hard 3 years later). That sub-$500 box will last you a good 5 years, at which point you can spend another $500 that will last just as long, without being stuck with a 10 year old computer (and without sinking thousands in it up front).

If you purchase top-end "today", "tomorrow" all you need to do is purchase the latest updated OS.

Right, so explain why my $3000 P1 (was certainly top end for the time) ran Win98 like crap? Or Why I also needed to upgrade my other "top end" computer to run XP, or that a really top-end computer to run XP from XP's era (2001 -- top of the line being a P4 2GHz back then) doesn't run Vista worth crap and so on? Yep. Because it's just NOT the case.

Will the e2180 processor run Windows 7 well? or run Windows "8" well? - No

Yes, it will. They've even said Win v7 will run on the same specs as Vista. Windows 8 isn't even being planned right now, no idea of release dates or anything. But I'd bet good money that even a $5000 system you'd build today will suck HARD by then (just as much as the E2180 will). At some point, hardware 10% faster is like double the price or more, and it surely won't last much longer. Buying top-end usually doesn't pay, at all.

Will the e2180 processor run XP SP3 well? YES

And does it run Vista SP1 well? YES

If I went down that route, I would have to place a 25% mark-up on all components, add in the cost of shipping charges First Class from southern California, not to mention my hourly rates for putting the components together and setting up the system complete with security and maintenance programs, tweaking the security, internet connection, cleaning out the registry, disabling unnecessary services, slimming it down a bit, a delivery charge (trip charge) to the customers home, a set-up / installation charge, State and Local Taxes, and a basic overview "basic training" of what I did to their new system...

So instead of buying $500 worth of parts, you make them waste $1000+ on a similar pre-built box. Assembling it? It only takes a few minutes, and most shops do it for only a few dollars, besides, where's the problem with you charging them say, $50 to assemble it to save them $500? Shipping? Pre-built also charge shipping, or it's included in their (articially inflated) price -- nothing saved there either. Setting up the system? That should be 5 minutes of work for any competent tech (unattended install). Security and maintenance programs? Those can be unattended too, and pre-builts don't normally come with any, and the odd times it does, it's usually garbage (like norton sh*t) -- no advantage there yet again. "tweaking the security, internet connection, cleaning out the registry, disabling unnecessary services, slimming it down a bit" -- yes, because that's any different when you buy a system pre-assembled from Dell? More nonsense yet again. Delivery? You're going to have to deliver both... Setup/installation? Same thing yet again, the Dell doesn't come with a tech in the box to do it for them. Still no difference. State and local taxes? Both pre-built systems and parts have taxes. Yet again no difference. Training? Ditto.

All you demonstrated so far, is that you're willing to make people spend hundreds of $$$ more on a pre-built so you don't have to spend 15 minutes to do it yourself.

and we still haven't added in the extra costs of a decent printer!

Same thing as I said in my last 3 posts or such: neither the parts, nor the pre-built comes with one (unless they artificially inflate the price of the pre-built even further and "give" you one). TANSTAAFL.

Are ya learning something yet?

That some people are lazy, yes.

Are we now going backwards on the OS as well? You look forward to the next and future Operating System, as I already explained.

That's 100% irrelevant (as usual). We were talking about doing 5 minutes of work on a P3 for $450 VS getting a $450 upgrade. You're the one that's talking about OS'es here.

Most 15 year olds are too busy "tweaking" their profiles on MySpace, Facebook, and YouTube - or creating cool Visual Styles.

You'd be surprised... There's a LOT of young geeks on here.

Instead I am going to suggest that you get off the couch that your brother left to you as a "hand-me-down" before he went off to college and instead of you joining him, you decided to spend a few years living in your parent's basement - go to the coffee-house, "sip on a latte", use the free WiFi, and tally up the score...

Ah, more trolling and no insight -- as usual! You should copyright that, you're certainly pioneering that field -- you finally found something you're genuinely good at for a change!

Edited by crahak

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