Configuring Multiple Soundcards

[Tripredacus]

OK so I have a new project. One of our customers has ordered a computer with 3 sound cards in it. They are 2 PCI X-Fi Xtreme and 1 PCI-E X-Fi Extreme. The first problem was that I was able to install the drivers for the PCI cards, but the PCIE refuses to accept the driver. Vista sees it as a High Definition Audio Device, and I currently have it set to be the default Sound device, so Windows sounds play through it normally.

However, that isn't the issue I am experiencing. I need to prove that I can get reliable sound out of all three sound cards. I can get sound out of all three at once, but I'm encountering a problem. I want to make sure it isn't a resource or hardware problem before I approve this configuration for sale.

So I have Winamp installed using the output select plugin. This allows me to use 1 Winamp instance (I have read about multiple instances but haven't tried that yet) and output to the two PCI sound cards (the ones with the drivers installed) to get simultaneous sound. Except I am having a problem.

Using DirectSound to XFI-1: normal playback

Using DirectSound to XFI-2: normal playback

Using WaveOut to XFI-2: normal playback

Using WaveOut to XFI-1: normal playback

Now with either config, using BOTH DirectSound and WaveOut plugins, the song (using MP3) plays back too fast, and the output levels are too high for the soundcard. FYI, when the output levels are too high (think waveforms being cut off caused by exceeding maximum tolerance in electronics theory) you get distortion. This is common if you take a CD that has a high mastering gain from recording, encode an MP3 at a lower bit rate, and playback has a "choppiness" to the song because some of the sound information (the highs and lows) is missing. This is basically the best way I can describe this.

Of course using a PC isn't as easy to configure as using sound equipment, so I can't just turn a knob this time to fix it.

So, my issue is why does Winamp play the songs too fast and at the incorrect level? Also if there is another software program I can test with that supports multiple outputs (not WMP either) and it has to be free or a trial. We can't be spending money on software to do this testing. Also, is there a limiter in Vista that is not allowing the PCIE sound driver to install?

FYI about the PCIE driver, when I tell it to use the updated one (its a different driver package than the PCI card uses) Windows reports that the best driver for the device is already installed.

I will be trying out the multiple instance trick, and perhaps contact out Creative rep for help. Also I must add that Winamp refuses to output sound to the PCIE because the MS driver doesn't allow playback. Also, when playing back audio to the two PCI cards, the Windows sounds played on the PCIE sound normal.

There is an onboard Audio controller (Realtek HD) that is disabled in the BIOS, and the Realtek driver/software package is not installed.

[Tripredacus]

Using multiple instances of Winamp did not work. I was able to configure each instance to use a different sound card, but the sound distorted once I hit play on the second card.

I tried using two different source files as well.

Perhaps it is an issue, there is only 2GB RAM on this machine...

Edited August 5, 2008 by Tripredacus

[RED_404]

I think instead of 3 sound cards you client may have been more happy with something like the M-Audio Delta 1010LT

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010LT-main.html

as for the three Creative cards in vista try a different audio player like foobar2000

and ask around a bit @ http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/

sorry I cant help more

PS shut off as much of the creative stuff as you can like the CMSS

[Tripredacus]

OK I took the second machine and loaded XP Pro SP2 onto it. I installed all the drivers for the motherboard and the 2 regular X-FI PCI cards, but only to find out that Creative does not provide a 32bit XP driver, only 64bit XP (supported but no driver) and Vista 32/64 provided drivers. Even the installer said I need to upgrade to Vista to install it.

I did all the same tests with Winamp on this one and the results were the same. I also tried the a couple other programs, RED (which refused to output on 2 channels, only one) and another program (PCDJ) which did exactly what Winamp did.

So I'm still stuck. I think its now time to get approval to contact Creative about this issue. I'll check out this foobar2000 thing next as a last resort, but if I can't get this to work with the customer's software, I'm not sure it will even matter. Its bad because one of the apps is designed to work in 98, and their website says to change the compatibility mode in XP to 98 to get it to work. I am not even going to attempt to install this on Vista...

[Tripredacus]

Update about foobar2000, it did not support multiple outputs, or I couldn't figure out how to do it.

[DigeratiPrime]

This is an interesting problem Tripredacus unfortunately I have more questions then answers

First I am curious why you have setup multiple sound cards in a single machine? Is it to save money and condense hardware and cabling or is there a technical audiophile reason for doing so?

Why two of the PCI cards and one of the PCI-e ones?

Do you want the same audio output on all three cards or is it different for each card?

Does the problem your having with Winamp and Directsound happen on XP and Vista?

Have you considered multiple instances of a portable player like XMplay and the ASIO plugin?

BTW Vista might actually handle compatibility with Win98 applications better then XP due to all the work with compatibility shims and such; I'll will seek an expert opinion on this.

[Tripredacus]

This is an interesting problem Tripredacus unfortunately I have more questions then answers

First I am curious why you have setup multiple sound cards in a single machine? Is it to save money and condense hardware and cabling or is there a technical audiophile reason for doing so?

Why two of the PCI cards and one of the PCI-e ones?

Do you want the same audio output on all three cards or is it different for each card?

Does the problem your having with Winamp and Directsound happen on XP and Vista?

Have you considered multiple instances of a portable player like XMplay and the ASIO plugin?

BTW Vista might actually handle compatibility with Win98 applications better then XP due to all the work with compatibility shims and such; I'll will seek an expert opinion on this.

The use of multiple soundcards is because the client wants to resell a music server. Say for example, you could have this computer in your basement. And say you had speakers in 4 different rooms. With this computer you could play 4 different songs or playlists in each of the different rooms. This is the main idea, although this machine will be primarily used for club or event usage, using 4 separate audio zones. Why exactly this is being used it also beyond me, but I am guessing that the client wants to try to save money by putting together a computer that is capable of doing what expensive audio equipment can do instead. I've dealt with using a computer on a soundboard before and it wasn't set up like this at all. The client has already told me that he already has built and resold similar units, however using different sound cards and with Windows XP.

The reason for the soundcard selection is because the motherboard (MSI G31M3-F) only has 2 PCI Slots, 1 PCI-E x1 and 1 PCI-E x16. The PCI-E x16 has a video card in it, and the other three slots have sound cards.

And yes, all four sound outputs need to be able to play different things simultaneously.

The problem happens on both Vista and XP. It happens with any combination of Winamp (DirectSound and WaveOut), Windows Media Player, PCDJ Red, PCDJ KT, and another program I forget the name of. While I had considered using other software programs to make this work, it all comes down to the fact that the client's software needs to work with it, and in this case they do not as PCDJ KT is one of these programs.

I received this generic "official" statement from Creative this morning which basically says to me that they won't support this configuration.

Thank you for the update and information about this issue.

With regard to your issue, please be informed that you will only be able

to use once source at a time when using your soundcard. Once your

soundcard is set as your default or pirmary sound source, it will use it

for all the applications.

Running two different applications will not make any difference for

example Winamp and WMP since it will be using the same Audio Driver to

produce sound. Same settings and all, the only difference will be the

effects that you will be enabling on each application.

I do apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. And should you

still require assistance, please reply to this email with any previous

correspondence to ensure the quickest and most accurate service.