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Offler

Win9x Developer team

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There is one thing that disappoints me.

Can microsoft initiate any legal action against us. :unsure:

Now what should the installer be a simple sfx compressed.Or it should be more advanced and automatic.

And why aren't we making an organized team? :realmad: :realmad:

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to herbalist:

it is hard to distinguish which version of file has been created oficially of unoficially :( only thing i can do is pursue the most highest versions from internet and the most recent dates (even when the files are completely identical a pick up the newer one, because it does not tamper mi sorting system which is based on date and then on version number)

right now i may say that i have fixed at least one BSOD which was software issue... in this case app just freeze and can be closed from taskmanager. also files i am collecting have to work with windows 98se, so i am afraid that the resulted package wont run everywhere...

to Specialbao1:

i hope you have read the legal information i collected. i dont believe that MS will took any action, but i cant say it. files which i am working with have been released throught official patches so nobody can say that i cannot collect them or pehaps redistrubute. these upgrades have same status as DX which can be freely downloaded and used on more computers (admin can store last version a perform system upgrade in whole building).

when it comes to unofficial bugfixes there is no legal way how to act against person who is fixing bug on his own computer system. No matter how he do it. if we are making sw support (and patch release is support), which has been actually dropped by sw developer it is surely legal, but we cannot do it for money.

it is not written in any law how long or if sw developer has to maintain its product, or how to qualify quality of the product. therefore support is not dictated by law, but it is also not forbidden to pick up unofficial support and also it is not forbidden to perform addtional system upgrades when it does not breaks the licenses and eulas.

the patcher ... for now it should be best to use zip package because i really dont know how to program the patcher and also the transport of zip package is best. no mdsums are needed, if the package is broken you have to download it again, but you surely will not execute broken code.

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I'm glad that in a way this project started....like i said i will participate in any way i can...i'm not a programmer(well i know some delphi...but i'm not very advanced), photoshop...well a little better... :whistle:, but the most important thing is that i'm not lasy!! Yupii!! :lol:

I've created something...a schetch, i like this style and i want your opinion.

<<spam>>ublupsdan1.th.png

<<spam>>ubluiesitpsdal9.th.png

We need to vote on a design. It will be a soft round style, a square one..or...other...let me know.

Edited by Xstyle

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We need to vote on a design. It will be a soft round style, a square one..or...other...let me know.

Uhm, dunno this don't seem an "high-level mod" (i mean, it requires a theme manager and if we don't use UberSkin...) but a "mid-level" one.

I belive we can start with just simple things such as icons and fonts, for example (keep stability in mind). They *shouldn't* have any effect on the OS functionality, so are safe. To be different from any other mod projects I believe we can use a mix-up of these BricoPacks (btw, check this WikiMedia's icon set comparison page too).

It would be really great to have a Desktop Visualizer-like feature on the (future) official website... :sneaky:

BTW, if you're not a developer -like me- I believe you can collect documents/tips/infos for the documentation that is mutch more important, IMHO. :whistle:

Edited by patchworks

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Hmmm...well....looks like we need a lot off documentation.... We need to know what we want from this project..... The simple it is the better i guess! So...do we want to create our own icons or we will use what it's free and looks good!? The fonts..same issue...

What i can do:

- build some standalone apps, cpls, some desktop enhancements;

- skins if we will use uberskin;

- some icons,some graphics;

- and the basic stuff with resources, reshack and other programs;

:yes:

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also files i am collecting have to work with windows 98se, so i am afraid that the resulted package wont run everywhere...

The thread title gives the impression that this is for all 9X systems. Is this going to be for 98SE only or will it eventually expand to include all the 9X operating systems? I realize that 98SE is regarded as the best of the 9X systems by most of the members here. For myself, I haven't been able to make SE match the overall performance and reliability I get from my 98FE workhorse.

If you need a file version/date list for 98FE, I could make a listing of what's on this box. I have copies of all the updates and patches that have been installed on it over the last 5 years. I'm sure others here who use 95 and WinME could do the same.

Rick

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we shall see if the resulted patch package will run correctly or not... thats one of the things that needs to be tested (file by file...)

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The windows task bar is really nice :thumbup :thumbup

I can only upload attachments upto 200kb while some have posted attachments upto 1mb.Is my membership grade low or what is the reason

And can we add the modem compression feature in this pack.

Edited by puntoMX

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i had a little talk from tihiy. he might join if the team should work. so i have to talk about its goals and methods:

1. Single upgrade package which will include all know official and unofficial win9x upgrades.

...

...

for now i have combined several upgrades. Exuberants service pack, IE6, NET2.0, DX9.0c, vcredist 2008, uberskin and KEX into one machine. not bad solution but it took whole day.

And then you say "7. also if possible to be legal.", but it´s not legal. This is not to kick you in the balls, but M$ will take it down...

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the patcher ... for now it should be best to use zip package because i really dont know how to program the patcher and also the transport of zip package is best. no mdsums are needed, if the package is broken you have to download it again, but you surely will not execute broken code.

I think it would be prudent to include MD5 signatures with the packages, zips, and/or individual files. It takes very little time and effort to calculate MD5 signatures and list them with the files. My concern isn't just corrupted downloads. It's an unfortunate fact that websites and servers are being compromised at an alarming rate.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,145151-c...rs/article.html

I'd hate to see a project like this compromised or those testing the files become infected because some individual decides to replace the files with malware or some company considers an improved 98 to be a threat to their profits. We've already seen MS, software vendors, and hardware suppliers resorting to creating "9X obsolescense" with version checking in installers or just misrepresenting a devices or applications 9X compatibility. I can only imagine what the entertainment industry would think of an improved 9X system that could play protected content and still give the user full control over the OS and file system. It might be paranoid on my part, but I wouldn't put it past them to sabotage the project.

Rick

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Hello there guys!

The mod team asked me to explain - why:

This project is started wrong way, and doomed right now very bad.

You've stated the wrong title and wrong goals.

The "developer team" sounds good, but does not apply to you.

But - but: MOST excellent projects on this board do not rely on coding - Gape, MDGx, maximus-decim, soporific, others.

You should take the good from them! They're tested by time very well.

Your goals:

STEP 1: COLLECTING OF SYSTEM FILES
Is highly doubtful. All stable working compilations with complex versioning system are included into above projects. Why not combine them into one package with most benefits? Why not to make package installing all stable updates, newer unofficial ones, IE6, DirectX9, WMP9, etc? To have a goal of fast and small ultimate update? The list of your system files is pointless unless you have the prove from this forum that every updated file works as intended.

And oh: files from 2k/XP? You still don't believe they're not working in 9x or what? Good lists are on MDGx site, and yes, you can update them for XPSP3.

But not beyond public MS files. That's illegal and pointless.

STEP2: GRAPHIC AND SYSTEM MODIFICATIONS
That's the tough point. Let me say: default theme liked better than any other one. That's axiom. And oh - seriously - reshacking certain files brokens some things.
STEP3: LOCALIZATIONS
That's the very good goal! I'm sure sth can be achieved using Reshacker scripts. Why not make post-UNSP scripts to fix language back from English? That's not difficult, but can really help.
STEP4: GNUWIN

That's the most heretic thing i see on this subforum. Unlike others, patchworks has't made any good work or idea. Just constantly breaking forum view with huge images and offering programs he does not use. There are good freeware/open-sauce programs and small tools. That's what you should search&taste. Last Versions of Software for Windows 98SE has a good bunch of them.

Forgive my rudeness, please.

You must understand that 9x is believed to be dead long time ago, and you're not going to resurrect it by "changing graphics and updating files".

Stay tuned B)

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i had a little talk from tihiy. he might join if the team should work. so i have to talk about its goals and methods:

1. Single upgrade package which will include all know official and unofficial win9x upgrades.

...

And then you say "7. also if possible to be legal.", but it´s not legal. This is not to kick you in the balls, but M$ will take it down...

It all obviously come under the interoperability exemption to the D.M.C.A, as it sure does add new interoperability galore, which is the sine qua non requirement for the relevant parts of the E.U.L.A. not to apply... I don't see quite why it is fated to be illegal. In my opinion it may be a question for attorneys whether it is or is not legal. I just want to point out it's far from crystal clear... more like 32k shades of gray, IMHO.

Edited by dencorso

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@ Tihiy: FINALLY, someone who makes some good points. I agree 100% that the GNUWIN thing is BS, and let's say i agree on the default theme as well.

But anyone can just make a pack of some s*** and claim it's the best of all updates. What we tried to start here is a community project, but as you say it's doomed from the very start. Because as you can see, everyone's having different ideas, and we do not seem to be able to agree all on one thing.

I tried to give you people a place to be, it seems i was premature in my decision. And you got enough sponsors around to buy you a domain anyway...

I had a post about 98SE on newer hardware around, i said pretty much everything there. I appreciate your hard work and congratulate all MSFN members for their contributions. Without you i wouldn't have ME running on my laptop so much faster than XP did. :D But as it seems most members here work best alone, and maybe we should leave them to do their thing.

Because, you see, widespread of this project would mean more attention, which in turn could bring legal issues. And none of us want that, do we? The Immolator project is a great thing, but i think that's all we need at most. Coz if there's no challenge, where's the fun in making use of an old OS?

Whatever the subject, i think you all can agree a community effort isn't possible, so we'd best leave things as they are so the mods don't start banning us. ;) And you have to admit that this is just another "what we would do if..." thread.

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I don't see why a community effort to improve 9X and expand its usefulness should be illegal. As far as I can tell, about the only thing we can't do is use MS files from other OSs that we don't have licenses for. There's definitely no law against adding non-MS files to it. If that's illegal, then installing any non-MS software is also illegal.

If no one wants to go along with a community effort to keep 9X viable, how about a project that addresses what will be an issue for all 9X users, IPv6 compatibility?

Rick

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I don't see why a community effort to improve 9X and expand its usefulness should be illegal. As far as I can tell, about the only thing we can't do is use MS files from other OSs that we don't have licenses for. There's definitely no law against adding non-MS files to it. If that's illegal, then installing any non-MS software is also illegal.

If no one wants to go along with a community effort to keep 9X viable, how about a project that addresses what will be an issue for all 9X users, IPv6 compatibility?

Rick

You see, mods here have a big issue with EULAs, that's why we wanted to start a separate project. And it's not about the legal issue anyway, it's that nobody really gives a **** about a community project, so that brings us back to square one.

And wots ipv6? I saw it when i first tried vista, and all i have to say about it is that it looks weird. And it'll be at least 10 years till it'll be used in Romania anyway (as is the case with high definition cable TV), so right now i just don't give a **** about it. What, don't tell me we reached the max no of ipv4 addresses already.

Edited by Th3_uN1Qu3

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