Win9x Developer team

[Sfor]

I think, such a project will require a proper database. It will be a good idea to keep track of some information about projects in one place.

The database could contain

- is the language independant? or what languages are supported

- does it depend on some other updates necesary to be installed first

- the list of files/components and their version numbers

- the location/URL one can download it from

- information about how to contact people mintaining the project

- some properties about general purposes (update, enchancement, critical,...)

A database can be used to create an installer able to download files from multiple sources, or to combine all necesary elements in just one single package. Also it will help to join forces while working on the same subject or issue.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Sfor

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Midload? No. Mediafire? Yes.

A database would be a really good idea, so the installer only downloads the files it needs for that specific system, but we'd need a database operator, and maintenance of the database. Personally i think it's too risky, someone might forget updating the database when releasing something new, and possibly messing up peoples' computers.

Yes, we will need localization, but first let's focus on getting everything done in English. Then translating the stuff won't be so hard.

Btw Offler, you got a PM two days ago. Did you read it?

[herbalist]

Count me in. I'm not a coder but I can test the individual files and/or full project(s).

Rick

[Offler]

ok - lets say about one idea which i have...

KEX allowed me to trick install Visual C++ 2008 in Win98se and dependency walker showed that the libraries are working good, but i cannot create installer and i cannot redistribute the files. legal way how to install Visual c++ 2008 is quite strange - unpack with WinRar, again unpack with winrar and execute one file (i have forget which one). later you need to copy resulted dlls from c:\ into "system directory"

for this purpose we need some sort of "Upper level" installer which can perform installations for products which have been "locked" for win9x users.

Legal/Eula:

it is not reverse engeneering, just we have used special purpose installer to install the package correctly, without modifying code of package. Good and legal solution.

there are two major points of interest:

- system upgrades such as KEX, tihiys Uberkern

- special installers which can be added to package and will unlock the installation process or prevent bugs which may occur

For Example:

- game Prey did not have any trouble during installation.

- game Neverwinter nights was unable to complete instalaltion process and failure resulted in empty game directory

since all applications i used were able to communicate with Win98Se drivers and upgraded dlls, but there are still some trouble with installers.

the question is if there could be created some kind of installer shell which may catch installer needs and translate them for Win9x - for example when files are being extracted to system32 directory or when rundll is expected to be in system32 directory...

the better way of doing that is of course create fully compatible system, but in some cases it will be harder...

to unique:

i am stil reading it

Edited April 19, 2008 by Offler

[TheRedFox]

This sounds promising, so far. I think that, whatever the form, the full updates install package that we make should include the option of skipping any updates we don't want (similar to, but possibly more detailed than, autopatcher) and the option of going back and adding updates that we hadn't previously. also an uninstaller would be nice, incase there are glitches that we want to get rid of.

[OryNider]

It's better if a domain will be provided for this project and not a shared forum. Plus we may need permission for Microsoft if we will share the source code with all coders in internal development forum. I can undestend that Win98 is not supported anymore but everytime we recompile the files with VC9 and new res files we add new features that come from a supported OS.

Edited April 19, 2008 by puntoMX

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

It's better if a domain will be provided for this project and not a shared forum. Plus we may need permission for Microsoft if we will share the source code with all coders in internal development forum. I can undestend that Win98 is not supported anymore but everytime we recompile the files with VC9 and new res files we add new features that come from a supported OS.

Do you think M$ cares about what we do here? This forum could've been shut down a long time ago if it was so. The code that we are adding isn't all our property, indeed, but we do play an important part in the process of implementing those features.

We are not making profit out of the code we adapt to 9x from XP. We are simply providing a more enjoyable computing experience to people who are stuck with these versions of windoze for some reason or another. So i don't see where the permission would be needed. Besides, if we ask for permission and M$ does not allow us, then will we stop? From my point of view it's best to just keep up with what we are doing without attracting too much unwanted attention. Ie no letters to M$.

[Offler]

Nobody can forbid us to install our own code to win9x. in that case it will be illegal to install any third party applications on their system and that is nonsense

that means that we can use code which is opensource or our own to improve functionality of the win9x. and when we are talking about our code or opensource ... there is a lot of ways how to create a single program, or subsystem file. maybe there should be time to create completely new system core files fully compatible with old ones...

but i didnt want to discuss about legality of our work here. i am just asking if people here are willing to work together... rest shall be solved then...

also i dont belive that our work will threathen MS in any way now. since 96 percent of all computers is using Windows, and win9x users are so few as linux home users...

[puntoMX]

: From my point of view it's best to just keep up with what we are doing without attracting too much unwanted attention. Ie no letters to M$.

Too late for that , but we try to do our best to keep the 98 section up...

... and win9x users are so few as linux home users...

Hmmm, if only you knew. With upcoming complete installs like Ubuntu and Debian, and projects to play even the DirectX based games on them, more people have gone from Windows to Linux while 98 users will be less, not more. Please do not compare 98 with Linux .

[Offler]

it it hard to compare windows with linux. for now. but lets compare dos and freedos and see whats right now happening with win9x

linux has been here for years, but i can hardly tell if it has attracted users, mainly gamers, even when there is wine... people are just lazy when it comes to build up their own home pc - not only hardware, but just every sw detail...

[OryNider]

Maybe, but I still think that we need a domain with a forum and a download manager both with internal (team only) and public sections. Then we can open a topic for every win98 file in the internal section and start the review.

Edited April 20, 2008 by OryNider

[specialbao1]

We are not importing any code from any of M$ windows edition,so I don't think that any permission is required from Microsoft.We can also use some of the code from Reactos by just using there copyright and trademark logo.

Edited April 20, 2008 by specialbao1

[patchworks]

the opensourced win9x is also very good idea (i have read topic), but it will more time and also more people which will be skilled enough to reach it.

You (and not only you, so it's my fault) misunderstood the project attitude.

The "Open Sourcing Windows 9x" idea just wanted to collect indipendent softwares then put all unofficial patchers (and not only) together around an open development project.

BTW, that's the past. I also received critiques around the idea of "substitution" instead of improving.

Now i, as many other should do if we wanna be a team, can change my mind about it.

Last but not least, as already suggested my other 3ad, i suggest to adopt a cool name for the project. (i suggested to adopt the GNUWin, an adbandoned free software compilation for Windows project that is "currently without a leading team.")

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Maybe, but I still think that we need a domain with a forum and a download manager both with internal (team only) and public sections. Then we can open a topic for every win98 file in the internal section and start the review.

I can take care of that.

Now i, as many other should do if we wanna be a team, can change my mind about it.

Last but not least, as already suggested my other 3ad, i suggest to adopt a cool name for the project. (i suggested to adopt the GNUWin, an adbandoned free software compilation for Windows project that is "currently without a leading team.")

GNUWin. Alright, that sounds better than implementing the ROS shell.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Th3_uN1Qu3

[Offler]

Substitution VS Improving

these processes have their advantages and disadvatages - in way of programming and also in way of law. i personally prefer improving because it can be applied as a free "Unofficial 3rd party support" of software - in this case operating system. in this case we can support people which have original win9x and we can redistribute some files which were included with these systems.

gnuwin seems to be an interesting project, and partially i have developed similar collection in "Immolator" project, but i dont want to focus on apps as a final solution.

Linux greatest advantage is evolution. few years ago a thought that it will be impossible to run there win32 apps, with DX or other MS apis. today are many games supported and also the hardware support by developers is improving.

Win9x is facing fact that only few diehard users are searching a practical application for this system, but mostly they forget the fact that evolution of the system must go on. Yesterday i was stunned when i read that many opensource projects which also provide win32 versions have stopped win9x compatibility, just because they dont know about projects here.

example:

i discovered that latest Haali Renderer is technically best video displaying interface i ever met. it doesnt use CPU, but it works with GPU and image quality is really supreme. But i was disappointed when in version from november 2007 the creator of Haali media splitter stopped his win9x support.

so there are several goals:

- update windows dlls to be more compatible with newer apps

- persuarde some opensource leaders to create win9x releases

- or pick put the source code and create these releases and add them to win9x update package

- get better hardware support (drivers) for new devices - has been partially reached with Nvidia cards, but the fight for compatibility is only in beggining.

Win98SE is now not same system i have installed three years ago, and i would like to see that the improvement will go on further.