Tips on fixing Vista's Start Menu annoyances?

[alsoknownas]

If any of you find the default folder structure in the Start Menu of Vista / Server 2008 to be unecessarily chaotic, you may have tried to customize the folders into which apps/tools reside so the display is more streamlined and logical. As soon as you did this, you probably ran into some of the following problems:

1. Some folders you've changed the names of recreate new versions of their former selves

2. Other folders won't delete.

3. A number of shortcuts break when placed in different folders. (The OS only renames what you see in the Start Menu, and doesn't always rename shortcuts or folders within Properties.)

Any thoughts on how you'd surmount these sorts of barriers to the most basic customizations?

Maybe you have to leave everything as is, and just create one new folder, putting fresh shortcuts for frequently used apps into them. There must be a more elegant solution, though.

Cheers,

a.k.a.

[DrewWinters]

I can't offer much help, I've had more trouble with the Start menu than *anything* else in Vista. That said, here's my one little tip: don't "keep trying." If you move something, and then it doesn't appear to move - don't keep trying to move it. Just let it be for awhile. I'm not sure why it doesn't immediately work like it should, but sometimes the Start menu just doesn't refresh like it should. Continuing to move something already moved just makes things worse.

I hope you get more help than that though, because I sure could use some of it myself. Trying to work on the Start menu is like trying to get my roommates to clean up after themselves....

[alsoknownas]

LOL!

(And I actually did.)

Exactly! And no one from MS is replying in the MS forums to this question. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

a.k.a.

[nightthief]

1. Some folders you've changed the names of recreate new versions of their former selves

2. Other folders won't delete.

3. A number of shortcuts break when placed in different folders. (The OS only renames what you see in the Start Menu, and doesn't always rename shortcuts or folders within Properties.)

Any thoughts on how you'd surmount these sorts of barriers to the most basic customizations?

I regularly customize the Vista Start menu folders. As such, let me provide some general advice, and then address your specific questions.

Vista's start menu is an amalgamation of two separate directories and their subdirectories. The first of these is the global or all users start menu while the second is the currently logged in users start menu. While these each have default locations which can be altered, the easiest way to locate either one is by right-clicking on the Vista Orb and selecting Explore All Users... for the all users start menu or selecting Explore... for the current user's start menu. (When organizing my start menu, I normally open both directories in different explorer windows and then show the two windows "Side by Side."

Anything that appears in either of these directories will appear in the start menu you see when you click on all programs on the Vista Orb (aka Start) Panel. The main difference is that the All Users Start Menu appears for all users of the computer system (so should have any shortcuts to programs you want everyone to be able to access) while the Current User Start Menu is specifc to the logged in user account (so should only contain shortcuts to programs you don't want other users to access). Since my system has only one user, everything goes into my All Users Start Menu directory structure.

Vista's Start Menu has one minor annoyance. If a directory exists under the All Users Start Menu at the root level, but no corresponding root level directory exists (even though such could be an empty directory) under the Current User Start Menu, then said directory will appear in the Vista Orb (Start) Panel's All Programs display - but cannot be expanded or otherwise accessed. To avoid this annoyance, I create all my folders for organizing the system under the All Users Start Menu\Programs folder. Those created here display and can be accessed without regard to having duplicate access folders in the Current User Start Menu.

Inside the All Users Start Menu's Program folder, I create a set of directories for organizing my installed applications. Among these are Accessories, CD & DVD Support, Emulation, Games, Internet, Multimedia, and System Utilities. Under some of these I have additional directories to better organize the contents. For example, my Applications folder contains subfolders for Business, CAD/CAM, Graphics Arts, Music, Software Development, and Video Editing. I put only the icons to launch individual applications into these organized folders, putting in auxiliary icons needed for a specific program in a subdirectory of the same name as the program's launch icon. All the chaff (readme's, web links, uninstall icons, etc) I discard. this allows me to quickl;y find any application I want by function - while the search bar at the bottom of the Orb Pnel allows me to even more quickly find them by name.

As for your questions:

1 & 2> are commonly caused by the existance of dual start menus (one for all users, the other for the current user). Renaming or deleting a directory in the Orb Panel when it exists in both start menu directories, will default to affecting the Current User. The other entry will remain untouched, which will make it appear as if another directory was created after a rename or delete. You can either edit the directories as I do with Windows Explorer or simply delete/rename the second folder to eliminate it.

If a folder or icon does reappear after it is deleted from both start menus, then this is likely being caused by a setting in the specific application. WinRAR, for example, has an option to create a program group (aka start menu entry) that is necessary to first create your icons but should be unchecked after you have organized the start menu to prevent WinRAR from recreating the start menu entries.

In some cases, there are programs which absolutely refuse to stop recreating their start menu entries or will crash if they are not detected where the installer placed them. In these cases, I copy the icons to where I want them, then right-click on the aberrant folder and set its properties to hidden -> applying only to selected items. This allows me to organize things as I wish, while suppressing the display of the folder the application requires to function properly.

3> May be a function of what I described in the paragraph above, so read it for a potential solution. In other cases, this is caused because the installer for XYZ application failed to properly create a shortcut with the Start In directory properly specified. In these cases, the only choice you really have is to edit those shortcuts to include the proper Start In folder. Commonly insuring the Start-In folder points to the applications actual install folder under Program Files (or wherever you specified to install it) will alleviate the problem.

[alsoknownas]

Nightthief,

This is brilliant! It explains alot. You're the first person I've come across to mention these two different Start Menus. No doubt you just happened on this 'feature' somewhere in the public MS lit, but it's not coming up on anyone else's radar, that's for sure.

Many, many thanks! I'll give these things a shot, and if I still have issues, expect to hear a reply in another day or so.

a.k.a.

[DonDamm]

@aka, the start Menu from the time of Win2K ands XP has long been an amalgamation of the current user and All Users, now called Public in Vista. One of the things folks sometimes run up against is that they don't have "access rights" to some folders in Vista. You can solve this by first "taking ownership" of the folder by right clicking and clicking on Sharing and Security. Then give yourself full permissions to change. this is one change I've noticed in Vista over XP.

Also, you might note that while this is msfn it is not affiliated, moderated, nor administered by MS, and as such, while there my be some MS folks who frequent this forum, there can be no expectation that you'll get any definitive answer from MS, ... ever. There are many extremely qualified professionals who come to this forum, but they all aren't here necessarily every day and some only infrequently, so answers to questions are a knid of hit and miss proposition. If your question interests one or more of the members and they can shed some light on it, you'll likely get an answer.

If you don't hear, it doesn't mean it was a bad question or that no one has an answer - just that it hasn't been seen yet by the right person! :^)

[hclarkjr]

i use a program called vista start menu that does all i want