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Help with Win95b/95c Update Rollup Pack Beta-8


Kasolai

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I'm working on an old dell computer that I want to run win95c on. My question is about updating it. I'm going to be installing Office97Pro and Visual Studio 6. There are so many 95b/95c updates on the MDGX site its making me dizzy! This pack seems a fantastic idea to consolidate them into one large 'service pack' style installer. But... what updates are in it ? There is no info about this update rollup pack! I can't find anything that lists what updates are in it. How am I to find the missing updates and install them afterwards if I can't tell what was installed. Anybody have this info? Is there a info sheet available somewhere that lists exactly what updates are in the rollup beta 8 ? Another thing I am wondering is install order. I have edited the 95c installer to completely remove IE. After its installed I load IE5.5sp2. The highest security rollup for IE 5.5 I can find that works is KB867801, anybody know of a newer one for 95c ? Doing a complete and full update of win95b/95c seems like a nightmare. I think its great that there are pro's out there that are working on the unofficial update rollup to make things easier. Since nobody makes updates for 95 anymore, it seems like the point can be reached where the update rollup has 'everything' in it and no further OS updates need to be installed.

Using the modded windows media player 7.1 installer, I can load it on my win95c and it works fine, are there any update patches that should be applied? will they still work since 7.1 on 95 isn't supported?

On the MDGX site, where he lists all those win95 updates, I'm unsure of the install order... Do I just start at the top of the list and work my way down? or do I start at the bottom? or are they not arranged like that and the order doesn't matter unless specifically said in its description?

Anybody tried to figure a way to run IE6 on Win95?

I know win95 is old and outdated, but its fun to have a super nice 'best possible' win95c setup on some of my old systems to show that even win95 can still be a very decent OS and prove its still useful.

Thanks for any replies and yeah, I know I ramble a lot! :)

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I can't find anything that lists what updates are in it. How am I to find the missing updates and install them afterwards if I can't tell what was installed.
Well, you can see the installed updates in Control Panel/Add/Remove Software.

But personally, I wouldn't install this pack (since one doesn't know what's really in it). I would just install Win95 and then go to the MS update site and download all the updates that seem appropriate (security updates and updates that enhance functionality).

Afterwards you can seletively search for further updates if something doesn't work the way it should be.

But actually I think that most of these updates are security updates and since Win95 and all the updates are outdated anyway it's six of one and half a dozen of another.

I have edited the 95c installer to completely remove IE.
Why?
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I find the Update Rollup Pack very useful. The MSFN member erpdude8 built it. Most people here would agree that he is knowledgable and trustworthy, I'm sure.

But I agree that more documentation about the updates installed would be useful. Perhaps you can address your questions directly to erpdude8. His website is at http://erpman1.tripod.com/ .

As a rule of thumb, the updates listed on MDGx's site for any given OS are in the order of 'most recent update first'. So, as a rule of thumb, they should be installed from the bottom upwards: go to the bottom of the list and work your way up. But use your common sense. ;)

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There are so many 95b/95c updates on the MDGX site its making me dizzy!

Yeah, the lay-out could be improved. The OSR2 updates page isn't very clear either. ERPMan's/erpdude8's is much better, though I still thought it could be better.

I made my own page. Enjoy.

I have edited the 95c installer to completely remove IE.

Good.

After its installed I load IE5.5sp2.

Eh? What's the point of removing IE from the install only to then install IE5 anyway? A Windows computer without IE is a good thing. It's obsolete, full of security holes, and there are superior alternatives available. Yes, even for Windows 95. Grab the latest Firefox 1.5, the latest SeaMonkey (wait until 1.1.6 though, it's released soon), or the latest Opera.

Anybody tried to figure a way to run IE6 on Win95?

Yes, some have. But it's not possible to get it working correctly.

I know win95 is old and outdated, but its fun to have a super nice 'best possible' win95c setup on some of my old systems to show that even win95 can still be a very decent OS and prove its still useful.

Yes. Some even still run it as their primary OS, like me. :)

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IE4 could be useful though, since there are many improvements that come with it (quick launch, the possibility to move items in the start menu manually, enhanced drag and drop functionality in the start menu etc.)

I also heard (I don't know for sure, though) that installing the latest version of IE (iE5.5 SP2) in Windows 95 is a good thing to do since it makes Win95 more secure (some security issues are allegedly fixed) even if you don't use IE anyway.

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Yeah, thats what I'm doing. I remove IE4 to give 95c a clean slate, then install the IE 5.5sp2 with the desktop update enabled, since I like the active desktop functionality it adds to it. Why overlap IE4 with IE5.5 and have some or many old files from IE4 still in the mix ? By removing IE4 from the installer, that won't happen and I get a clean install of 5.5sp2.

I haven't looked at erpmans webpage yet, thanks for the link!

Nice page so far BenoitRen, looks like you got a good start going. I'm not sure about installing DUN 1.4 BEFORE the winsock2 update... are you sure on that ? As I said above, I prefer the desktop update features, so I always install IE5.5sp2 on 95c. I know its an outdated and unsafe browser, I don't use my 95c computers for hardly anything on the net, just now and then to get updated files and patches. I run Symantec Corp Antivirus 7.60 and Zone Alarm 3.1.395, as far as I know these are the final versions that work on win95. SCA 7.60 is still supported too. I actually wasn't sure what the best browser was for 95c these days, I'll get a copy of the firefox 1.5 now that I know it works.

Thanks for the replies so far guys! I appreciate it!

Edited by Kasolai
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Yeah, thats what I'm doing. I remove IE4 to give 95c a clean slate, then install the IE 5.5sp2 with the desktop update enabled, since I like the active desktop functionality it adds it. Why overlap IE4 with IE5.5 and have some or many old files from IE4 still in the mix ? By removing IE4 from the installer, that won't happen and I get a clean install of 5.5sp2.
You just won't have any desktop enhancements like webview, quick launch bar, drag and drop start menu, active desktop and all the other stuff that comes exclusively with IE4.

I don't know which desktop updates you are referring to because there are none that come with IE5.5SP2 (just checked this in VMWare with a Win95 guest OS w/o IE4)

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IE 5.5sp2 DOES include the active desktop updater, its just hidden...

Here is the instructions to enable it:

-----------------------------------------

Installing the Active Desktop Update along with IE 5.5 SP2

You can install the Active Desktop Update on Windows 95 along with IE 5.5 SP2. The option exists, but has been hidden because it must not be installed on Windows 98 or newer (already included). Here's how to proceed:

1- Run the standard ie5setup.exe (or run that file from your downloaded package or CD).

2- When the License Agreement appears, STOP and don't accept or click NEXT! A folder \Windows\temp\ixp000.tmp has been created.

3- Locate iesetup.cif in the \Windows\temp\ixp000.tmp folder and open it in notepad.

4- Scroll down to the [iE4Shell_Win] section, find the line that says UIVISIBLE=0 (its near the top) and change it to read UIVISIBLE=1, then save the file. This will enable the hidden Active Desktop Update checkbox in IE 5.5's installation program.

5- Go back to License Agreement, check "accept" and click the Next Button, then choose Install Minimal or customize your browser and click [Next] again.

6- You will now see the Windows Desktop Update option immediately under Internet Explorer 5.5 Web Browser. Check both and select the other components you want then proceed with the installation as usual.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I have used this techinique several times now and it works perfectly. Doing this, means the buggy IE4 never needs to be installed! You can go from no IE, directly to IE 5.5sp2 with all Active Desktop features.

Give it a try :)

Edited by Kasolai
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IE4 could be useful though, since there are many improvements that come with it (quick launch, the possibility to move items in the start menu manually, enhanced drag and drop functionality in the start menu etc.)
You just won't have any desktop enhancements like webview, quick launch bar, drag and drop start menu, active desktop and all the other stuff that comes exclusively with IE4.

Many improvements? Only a couple minor features that don't really matter in the end, and some features that unnecessarily add BLOAT to the system.

There isn't much point in Quick Launch when you can create desktop shortcuts. Start Menu organising should be done in Explorer, where it makes sense. The Start Menu itself is to be used.

Web view and Active Desktop don't belong on any OS. Browsing your hard drive like a web page, complete with Go and Favorites menus, Back & Forward buttons and an IE logo on the upper right? Why? A web page as your background? WHY? It doesn't make sense. It's just bloat.

And for all of those so-called 'improvements', you make the OS worse. You integrate IE, making it unstable and use more memory than it's needed (since IE is always loaded). And did I already mention the bloat?

I also heard (I don't know for sure, though) that installing the latest version of IE (iE5.5 SP2) in Windows 95 is a good thing to do since it makes Win95 more secure (some security issues are allegedly fixed) even if you don't use IE anyway.

Bulls***. Especially considering that IE itself IS a security hole!

I'm not sure about installing DUN 1.4 BEFORE the winsock2 update... are you sure on that ?

It's been a long time, so I wonder why I said that. Looking at the KB entry, it seems to be the reverse:

"Microsoft has also released Winsock2, a complete redesign of the Winsock architecture. Winsock2 is fully compatible with the Dial-Up Networking 1.4 Upgrade. If Winsock2 has already been installed, the Dial-Up Networking 1.4 Upgrade will not overwrite it."

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IE 5.5sp2 DOES include the active desktop updater, its just hidden...

Here is the instructions to enable it:

-----------------------------------------

Installing the Active Desktop Update along with IE 5.5 SP2

You can install the Active Desktop Update on Windows 95 along with IE 5.5 SP2. The option exists, but has been hidden because it must not be installed on Windows 98 or newer (already included). Here's how to proceed:

1- Run the standard ie5setup.exe (or run that file from your downloaded package or CD).

2- When the License Agreement appears, STOP and don't accept or click NEXT! A folder \Windows\temp\ixp000.tmp has been created.

3- Locate iesetup.cif in the \Windows\temp\ixp000.tmp folder and open it in notepad.

4- Scroll down to the [iE4Shell_Win] section, find the line that says UIVISIBLE=0 (its near the top) and change it to read UIVISIBLE=1, then save the file. This will enable the hidden Active Desktop Update checkbox in IE 5.5's installation program.

5- Go back to License Agreement, check "accept" and click the Next Button, then choose Install Minimal or customize your browser and click [Next] again.

6- You will now see the Windows Desktop Update option immediately under Internet Explorer 5.5 Web Browser. Check both and select the other components you want then proceed with the installation as usual.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I have used this techinique several times now and it works perfectly. Doing this, means the buggy IE4 never needs to be installed! You can go from no IE, directly to IE 5.5sp2 with all Active Desktop features.

Give it a try :)

You're right, it really works.

I wonder why they omitted this option in the first place...

There isn't much point in Quick Launch when you can create desktop shortcuts.
Well of course you don't necessarily need it to use windows, but it's just very practical. Especially when you have one or more maximized windows. You would first have to minimize every window to get to see the desktop.

With the quick launch bar you just click on the icon and there you go...

Start Menu organising should be done in Explorer, where it makes sense.
What's so bad about being able to move/delete/create shortcuts right where you need them?
Web view and Active Desktop don't belong on any OS. Browsing your hard drive like a web page, complete with Go and Favorites menus, Back & Forward buttons and an IE logo on the upper right? Why? A web page as your background? WHY? It doesn't make sense. It's just bloat.
Why not?

It just makes navigating easier.

Personally, I don't use active desktop, the back and forward buttons, the go button and the favorites menu either but unless you have a very, very old computer (like a 486 with 32MB RAM) it's a nice and handy feature.

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You're right, it really works.

I wonder why they omitted this option in the first place...

Because people complained about IE4 installing the Desktop Update.

Well of course you don't necessarily need it to use windows, but it's just very practical.

The Start Menu is just as practical, and it's ORGANISED.

Especially when you have one or more maximized windows. You would first have to minimize every window to get to see the desktop.

Oh no, that's so hard!

Right-click task bar > Minimise all windows

What's so bad about being able to move/delete/create shortcuts right where you need them?

-You can accidently move stuff, causing confusion and annoyance

-No auto-sorting (alphabetic)

-It's meant to be accessed, there's a reason it doesn't look like a file folder

Why not?

It just makes navigating easier.

Personally, I don't use active desktop, the back and forward buttons, the go button and the favorites menu either but unless you have a very, very old computer (like a 486 with 32MB RAM) it's a nice and handy feature.

Yes, it makes it so much easier, which is why you don't use it, right? Just the fact that it taxes your system more is proof enough that it isn't all that good. It just creates redundancy. The Start Menu already is a sort of advanced Favorites menu. The Go menu is just the toolbar. The Back button copies to "Go up" button.

Just a bad idea created by M$' desire to integrate their browser.

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Ok BenoitRen we all understand you hate IE and everything to do with it,

and nothing we say can change your mind.

It doesn't mean ALL of us feel the same way...

--

Back to my original post on this thread..

I guess nobody knows exactly whats in that rollup pack?

Well, erpdude8 does but he hasn't replied. Pity...

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Please, please: IE 4 and its "enhancements" simply aren't worth bothering with, especially in this day and age. They add both bugs and bloat; more or less nullifying the advantages of using Windows 95 to begin with. While some people may like it, I believe it's fair to say that the vast majority don't: Remember the incessant criticism of the software that circulated ten years ago? :blink: Many a stable Windows 95 system met its unlucky demise with IE 4.

Web view and Active Desktop don't belong on any OS. Browsing your hard drive like a web page, complete with Go and Favorites menus, Back & Forward buttons and an IE logo on the upper right? Why? A web page as your background? WHY? It doesn't make sense. It's just bloat.
Why not?

It just makes navigating easier.

Personally, I don't use active desktop, the back and forward buttons, the go button and the favorites menu either but unless you have a very, very old computer (like a 486 with 32MB RAM) it's a nice and handy feature.

I'd have to think that if the features were indeed "nice and handy," they would have proved their value in productive use.

In any case, in my experience the mere presence of web integration (let alone an enabled active desktop) is enough to bring even an early Pentium-era machine to a crawl.

While BenoitRen has already elaborated on most of the specifics, the prospect of avoiding IE is the most compelling incentive for using Windows 95 in my opinion. If you like IE and don't mind it being part of your system lock, stock, and barrel, you might as well use Windows 98 or subsequent versions.

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  • 8 months later...
The Start Menu is just as practical, and it's ORGANISED.
Sure but it's still more practical if you don't even have to open the start menu but just simply click on the program icon.
-You can accidently move stuff, causing confusion and annoyance

-No auto-sorting (alphabetic)

Well then you just move it back to where it was before (or just don't move it at all...) and of course alphabetic auto-sorting is available
The Back button copies to "Go up" button.
No.
I'd have to think that if the features were indeed "nice and handy," they would have proved their value in productive use.
And didn't they?

We still have these "annoyances" in XP and I guess a lot of people use them

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