Wunderbar98

Install notes will eventually be completed for all Firefox releases listed below. The install process will be similar for non-ESR releases too, just the download URL will differ, use same dependencies from the ESR release era. The bloat and performance hit is evident with each new release. The key is finding a sweet spot between performance and usability. Although FF_3.6.28 was not an ESR release, it is included because it's classic. It has the same outdated cipher connection issues that plague all old OS users. If you want to run this version on Windows 98, consider kernel extensions with an enhanced FF v3.6 linked in this forum. According to wikipedia, TLS v1.1 and 1.2 were enabled by default in Firefox v27. Unable to test FF_ESR_60.9.0 onward due to exception error on non-SSE2 capable hardware. The GTK3 (Graphic Toolkit 3) releases are so heavy, unusable on current hardware. Of note SeaMonkey also changed from GTK2 to GTK3 sometime between v2.46 (in TCL v7 repository) and v2.49 (manual upgrade needed, see README.TXT). FF_3.6.28 (MAR 2012, 10 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_10.0.12 (JAN 2013, 16 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_17.0.11 (NOV 2013, 20 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_24.8.1 (SEP 2014, 27 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_31.8.0 (JUL 2015, 37 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_38.8.0 (APR 2016, 44 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_45.9.0 (APR 2017, 50 MB, GTK2) FF_ESR_52.9.0 (JUN 2018, 55 MB, GTK3) FF_ESR_60.9.0 (SEP 2019, 53 MB, GTK3, need SSE2 processor, untested) FF_ESR_68.5.0 (FEB 2020 ongoing, 63 MB, GTK3, need SSE2 processor, untested)

Regarding the Modern Web Browser Emulation project, the firefox_getLatest script from the Tiny Core Linux v7 (TCL) repository broke. Just wanted to notify so nobody wastes time on it. If anyone still wants to hack, recommend the manual Firefox method described in the README.TXT. There will be lots of changes to the README files, so maybe just hold off. The SeaMonkey installation instructions should still work fine. Linux is also a victim of new and shiny. The script author refuses to update older releases, 'update to the latest' is the usual response. Hogwash. For those that know their way around Linux and Tiny Core, it just appears to be a new wget URL. Unsquash the firefox_getLatest.tcz extension, place the script in $HOME/.local/bin, shutdown, re-boot, modify the script, chmod +x. Note there may be more breakage than below, can't be bothered to check. Broken: http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases Good: http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases Revamped READMEs are pending, it will take time. New notes will describe manual Firefox installation methods, bypassing the firefox_getLatest script. Focusing only on ESR releases, going back and forward in versions as much as this TCL v7 release and my hardware will allow. Presently running Firefox ESR 38.8.0 from April 2016. Since it's a little older, it still uses the more efficient GTK2 graphic toolkit. So it's actually fairly nice. In the end the broken script is likely a blessing in disguise, just a little more legwork. High-end Windows 98 hardware will still be required.

Thanks for all feedback. Couldn't get built-in networking running with vanilla Windows 98 on this old QEMU. Despite best efforts, couldn't find a KQEMU accelerator for it either, not sure Windows 98 compatible QEMU ever had acceleration. Tests with Tiny Core Linux Xvesa vs Xfbdev graphics did not make an appreciable difference, if anything default Xvesa looked faster. Thanks for all the links. Disk Explorer good, will create a separate README.TXT for file sharing between host and QEMU guest. Extract v2.10 looked like an interesting console alternative but the download link failed in RetroZilla even with JavaScript, query broken link. Thanks for confirming Firefox v55.0.3. Seems Mozilla couldn't decide, apparent contradictions within the same article. Will probably update the README with a range for non-SSE2 systems between Firefox v49 - v55.0.3, let the user decide what they want to experiment with. Query whether some features required SSE2 and caused crashes (eg sync, pocket), don't know. From the link, looks like Firefox ESR v52 still supports non-SSE2 systems. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/your-hardware-no-longer-supported Will upload updated README.TXT files for this experimental Modern Web Browser Emulation project in the next few days to wrap it up. Based on slow browser performance, query whether it would be functional even with maxed out Windows 98 hardware (ie. 2.6 GHz Pentium 4), wish i had this for testing. Regardless, still fun to see what may be possible.

Thanks for all responses. From DOS, running 'qemu.exe | more' or 'qemu.exe > QEMU_options.txt' lists all available options for this old QEMU, closest thing to documentation for this release. In LAUNCH.BAT replacing '-no-kqemu' with '-kernel-kqemu' may be worthy of a performance trial. Also noteworthy that this old QEMU does have built-in networking capability, so there must be a simpler way to file share. If it can be enabled built-in, this may be better than other options. Will play over the next few days, if anyone can solve please post notes. Not all of this is probably related to this old QEMU, maybe it helps solve the issue. https://wiki.qemu.org/Documentation/Networking QEMU performance is apparently slow with Xvesa graphics, planning time trials using Xfbdev frame buffer.

Glad you got things sorted, hopefully it helps someone else. What setup are you using exactly? There are too many configuration options to discuss in a stripped down README. My test system uses a PS2 mouse. If anyone else using USB mouse has problems, please report the issue and solution. A README update may be pending. Couple other things that may help others. FLWM is not a favourite window manager, just the default, obviously the goal is to get a browser running. Ctrl-Alt-m maximizes windows. Right-click the desktop or a title bar for an application context menu. Search 'flwm_topside' in Apps to review default keyboard shortcuts. When in graphic mode Control Panel -> Mouse Tool can be used to adjust mouse speed. If a TCL boot gives mouse or graphic grief (unusable), try: Ctrl-Alt-Delete when QEMU window is active to exit TCL graphics and return to command line (cancel Window 98's coincidental task manager popup). In command line, move .xsession file (note the .xsession period). mv /home/tc/.xsession /home/tc/.xsession_backup Run graphic setup, select mouse type and resolution. xsetup Restart graphic mode. startx If good, ensure backup is selected upon TCL shutdown. Otherwise repeat 'xsetup' and trial another option.

Thanks for all responses, i will investigate further. Thus far no passthrough attempts were successful, it could be that this old QEMU release did not yet have the feature. Will dig a little more tomorrow. Hi Brunhino. The documentation was changed to 'Within QEMU press Ctrl-Alt at any time to break out to the host system', rather than 'Within QEMU press Ctrl-Alt to break out to the host system'. The intention isn't to break out, just to let people know how. So if you're using the old README.TXT and entered Ctrl-Alt then your active cursor returned to Windows. If so just re-click on the QEMU TCL window and the mouse cursor should return to action. Unfortunately you're old hat with emulation so this probably isn't the case. My tests were performed on a bare metal Windows 98 installation. If you have Windows 2000 emulating Windows 98 emulating Tiny Core Linux then i'm not sure this will work, i believe QEMU needs hardware access. If i were you, use your favourite Windows 2000 emulator and go from there, bypass this old QEMU and Windows 98. You could try modifying the LAUNCH.BAT video driver and retest. It's defaulted to directx, try windib. SET SDL_VIDEODRIVER=windib

An updated README.TXT download link was placed in my 'Modern Web Browser Emulation' post towards the top of this page. The edits are relatively minor but don't want anyone getting tripped up by documentation. Thanks.

If you decide to trial, hope it works out okay for you Bruninho and sparty411. The SeaMonkey and Firefox screenshots above scaled poorly, browser versions are barely legible. Re-uploaded, here are 'direct links', opening the image in a new tab should allow proper re-sizing. SeaMonkey v2.49.4: https://i.postimg.cc/qRXsJ71j/Browser-Emulator2.png Firefox v49.0.2: https://i.postimg.cc/j2hY4yZP/Browser-Emulator3.png Will likely never post another desktop screenshot here again so wanted to show Process Explorer v8.52 minimized to tray, black bar graph in shot, goes green up to red with CPU use. TinyResMeter v0.95a displaying Uptime, RAM and Page File use, very configurable. Tihiy's tools -> Network activity indicator to monitor network activity, idle in screenshots. All this software was discussed and probably linked earlier in this thread. Probably the most functional Windows 98 desktop i've ever set up, thank-you forum members for the assistance.

Hi Goodmaneuver. The original post from Mr.Ruskie hijacked another thread. Either Mr.Ruskie or forum admin created this appropriately titled thread without leaving a note. Never would have thought my response above would have earned two hearts, others must have agreed.

Sorry Bruninho, just realized your last queries were not answered. As per my README.TXT, clipboard and file passthrough is not addressed. For some this is a security feature, semi-sandboxed browser. Extra legwork would be required by the user to figure out passthrough for QEMU or whatever emulator they choose to use. Sorry i don't have an answer, emulation is my weakness, this was the only QEMU version that worked in vanilla Windows 98 and all emulators are different. To complicate matters, this old QEMU release works differently than more current releases and documentation for this old QEMU could not be found. Maybe someone else will provide insight or figure it out.

Hi Bruninho, pretty much, it ran Firefox v49 and SeaMonkey v2.49.4 (2018), very slowly. My CPU doesn't support SSE2, otherwise i would have tried for Firefox 70 whatever and the latest SeaMonkey Beta, just released. You may want to use the README.TXT steps on Windows 2000, using an accelerated emulator. This would probably work better on Windows 2000 and XP type systems anyway, as they support faster hardware. The README.TXT download above has detailed step by step notes, as not everyone has the same background using DOS, emulators, fdisk, Linux, virtual terminal. There are notes for manually repacking an extension to update a browser yourself when a new release comes along. For most it's too much bother and the performance hit is too great. If you like to tinker and test, brew a nice warm beverage and enjoy.

Glad you resolved it 173a, you changed up a few things. Maybe just reseating everything, sometimes this helps with corrosion or just a better connection. Re-assembling on cardboard is actually preferred, it allows properly pushing down the IDE connectors instead of motherboard flex when in the case. Not sure about the GPU change but the RAM change may have been a factor. You may want to run memtest or similar, at least on the removed module, may avoid a future head scratcher.

== Modern Web Browser Emulation == = Overview = Emulate a recent Firefox or SeaMonkey web browser, tested in vanilla Windows 98. Performance is much too slow to be functional on a 1.8 Ghz system. Emulating a modern web browser needs a fast processor and lots of memory. This is just an experimental exercise and may not be practical. It would work best with maxed out hardware and kernel extensions for a newer, accelerated emulator. Even on decent hardare, browser configuration would likely need to be leaned out. Minimum host requirements: - Vanilla Windows 98 - High speed internet - 500 MB drive space - 2 GHz processor - 1.5 GB RAM Best suited for the following use case: - Want to run Windows 98 as the primary OS. - Have adequate hardware to run emulation. - Occasionally need a modern browser (eg. email, banking). [1] - Don't want to run a multi-boot system. - Desire to hack and try something new. [1] Use at own risk. This how to uses QEMU emulator with a Tiny Core Linux (TCL) guest, why: - Freely available open source tools. - No formal software install or registry changes. - The sofware combination works in vanilla Windows 98. - Low system resources, base TCL boots with < 64 MB RAM. - Small footprint: QEMU < 2 MB extracted, TCL 16 MB ISO. - Familiarity, previously contributed TCL patches and extensions. - Up to a 15-20 year newer code base that can run a modern browser. - TCL is actively developed and has a forum, wiki and reference book. To me the neatest part is that Windows 98 acts as host, while the guest runs code almost 20 years newer. Recommend experimenting with QEMU in C:\Windows\temp and moving files to a permanent location later. In vanilla Windows 98, 7-Zip v9.20 can be used to handle ZIP and ISO files. This example uses a 500 MB virtual disk for simplicity. Most is used to install and run a modern web browser and the remainder is a fallback swap partition. The default LAUNCH.BAT config file allots 1024 MB RAM to QEMU. Feel free to increase the virtual drive size and RAM allocation as hardware permits. This guide can be used modularly and customized. For example, use different emulation or virtualization software, replace TCL with something else. Modify the size or number of virtual disks. There are graphic QEMU setup programs. If your system is running a newer version of Windows then accelerated emulation should be trialed. QEMU and TCL come with many configuration options, modify as desired. These README_FIRST.TXT setup steps do not use or require clipboard or file pass through. Depending on use case this can be a security plus, using a modern browser in semi-sandboxed environment. If file sharing between the host and guest is desired, review README_FILE_SHARE.TXT. Note a very old version of QEMU is utilized, including unpatched bugs and security holes, use at own risk. This how to uses a DOS COMMAND.COM window and a Linux virtual terminal to perform most tasks, explicit commands are provided. In QEMU's TCL, use up arrow for previous commands and tab autocomplete when possible to ensure the correct directory or filename is being utilized. Use 'ls' to list items in a directory, 'cd' to change directory, enter 'reset' to clear a cluttered terminal. Familiarity with Linux and the command line is helpful. = Downloads = Download Win98_BrowserEmulator.zip (~16 MB) from below (no JavaScript needed). http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=13776965115608743747 Win98_BrowserEmulator.zip contents: - QEMU v0.8.2 (2003-2005 era) - TinyCore-7.2.iso (TCL, 2015-2017 era) - Custom QEMU LAUNCH.BAT - QEMU.EXE_options.txt - QEMU-IMG.EXE_options.txt Download README.zip from below (no JavaScript needed). http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=25326982961702772283 README.zip contents: - README_FILE_SHARE.TXT - README_FIREFOX.TXT - README_FIRST.TXT - README_SEAMONKEY.TXT Edit1: 08FEB2020 - Updated README.TXT. Edit2: 29FEB2020 - Project update, new README.zip and Win98_BrowserEmulator.zip

The hardware on this fresh install (1.8 GHz AMD Athlon XP 2500, 1.5 GB RAM, ATI Xpert 2000 Pro 32 MB) is able to play 1280 x 720 full-screen MP4 fairly well. Took a while to get SMPlayer and SMPlayer's 'mplayer.exe' config tuned. Following SMPlayer install, CPU use was high and video was choppy, something wasn't right. The SMPlayer -> Options -> Preferences did not list an audio driver, launching from Windows there was no sound. The primary sound drivers for Windows 98 are apparently 'dsound' or 'win32', with 'win32' being less problematic. No JavaScript needed: https://forum.smplayer.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20 Also adjusted some other sound settings. Video settings use double-buffering and post-processing, driver is 'directx'. SMPlayer settings are stored in the smplayer.ini file, which can provide hints when configuring the 'mplayer.exe' config file by hand. Preference is still to launch 'mplayer.exe' standalone, either from Windows or if using 9xweb, Cygwin/Linux. If using 'mplayer.exe' in this manner, both the Windows (Program Files -> SMPlayer -> mplayer) and Linux (cygwin -> home -> system_name -> mplayer) config files need to be modified. So far this 'mplayer.exe' config works well. # Write your default config options here! really-quiet=yes vo=directx ao=win32 framedrop=yes

Hi Bruninho, no need to apologize, everyone has an opinion, you didn't hurt my feeling. It's obvious you still have your humanity switch turned on, nice to see. This type of open discussion is interesting and stimulating. Forgot you already mentioned SeaMonkey dropped XP support, so yeah probably little chance it will work in Windows 2000, even with kernel extensions.

Probably installed Windows 98 more than 100 times over the years. Most OS are installed, use them for 3-5 years, move on. In Linux there are always new distributions and releases, the change over can be frequent. This latest install is two scoops of vanilla on a waffle cone. Other than installing DirectX v9.0c, no Windows Updates were applied. Haven't tested Windows 98 in this manner yet, so far so good. Might be considered good enough for someone that just wants to set up a quick system for a gaming fix. Favourite part of a fresh Windows 98 system is the tweaking: drivers, base software, basic configuration, tweak to infinity. Usually takes numerous sessions, even weeks or months, until the system becomes seasoned, the sweet spot! Definitely a good time for a full backup.

Hi siria. Pasted your CSS code into a RetroZilla userContent.css file, long YouTube descriptions now display, thank-you very much. Video duration not a big deal, as they already display on the YouTube search results page and the extra videos linked along the right side of a page. My favourite YouTube search is to use 'search_term[space],short' to get results of < 4 minutes duration, something like that. Good if you want to check something out quick. Similarly appending '[space],long' only displays search results > 20 minutes or similar. Curious, due to poor page layout in RetroZilla, do you think some global (not site specific) CSS modifcations would make a difference or just a zero-sum game? Also, have you ever created your own RetroZilla View -> Use Style, would you just use userContent.css or an extension like Stylish? For anyone using Stylish, beware it's well documented that later versions are spyware, unsure if those versions are still hosted on archive[dot]org.

An updated 9xweb script (Windows 9x Web Helper, version 20200203 Beta) is available, download from below. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020/page/17/?tab=comments#comment-1176154 1. A configurable 'sleepSecs' variable was added to avoid an apparent slow file system race condition when using video_fetch, causing the script to occasionally trip. It appears to result in less errors and a smoother experience. See the USER CONFIG section of the script. # Seconds of sleep to avoid slow file system race condition # during video_fetch HTML parsing and media auto play: sleepSecs="3" 2. New beta video description feature. The video description is fetched from the YouTube HTML file and dumped to terminal after the video download. Browse YouTube without JavaScript if desired and still review the descriptions for fetched videos. Longer descriptions usually hide behind JavaScript links, this should fetch that text too. The 'less' command is used for long descriptions that would otherwise scroll off screen. So far it seems to work fairly well. 3. Default media players are changed to below, adjust in USER CONFIG as desired. # Toggle media player for YouTube downloads: vidPlayer1="c:/program files/tcpmp/player.exe" vidPlayer2="c:/program files/smplayer/mplayer/mplayer.exe" TCPMP listed as primary, as it opens fast and reportedly works in Windows 95. Still unsure if this script works in Windows 95. On a fresh vanilla Windows 98 system, a default SMPlayer (mplayer.exe) v0.6.7 install does not require the extra codecs installation if you just want YouTube MP4s. Of course, you can point the config to your favourite media player.

Please don't burst my bubble Bruninho, if Windows 98 installs and runs it's not dead! Guess it comes down to wants, needs and expectations. Of course you mean in regards to the 'modern internet' and probably also for those who want everything plug and play. Then you're correct, this i will concede. However, even using vanilla Windows 98 RetroZilla is still being patched, a new release this week. With proper configuration it connects to almost every site. Windows 98 is capable of accessing most YouTube with fullscreen playback. Virtualization of a modern browser is possible, just tested a recent SeaMonkey, but it needs lots of horsepower. There's still KernelEx chatter on the forum. With R. Loew's memory patch Windows 98 can apparently access 4 GB RAM. Processors up to 2.6 GHz work, pretty decent hardware. Not sure what other goodies R. Loew's family was kind enough to pass along. Maybe someone with his skill will carry the torch. Aside, there's a SeaMonkey v2.53.1_Beta1 release, if you want to test a next generation release in Windows 2000.

Don't mean to sidetrack but felt compelled. Developers can do what they want and i am thankful for your work roytam1. Everything is configurable but to me siria has a point. Not everyone has unlimited time or ninja search skills to figure out what works, sometimes things should just work. Similarly with new RZ releases, if the necessary cipher configs aren't defaulted in the build, the user installs a browser that doesn't connect. Same thing with broken default search engines. Just my opinion, thanks for everyone's hard work on this forum to keep the software relevant.

Strange problem indeed. If you haven't already tried, the easiest thing to test would be another IDE ribbon cable. They aren't the most hardy when handled. Otherwise i would physically unplug and reconnect, don't just jiggle, the relevant IDE and power connections. Lastly maybe try cleaning the CD-ROM laser, the units are pretty easy to open up. Good luck.

The 'SYSTEM.INI 1024 MB RAM Limitation Configuration' post towards the bottom of page 19 was revamped and renamed 'Installing and Running Windows 98 with > 512 MB RAM'. The new method resulted in a clean, stable installation that maximizes RAM utilization. The use of RLoew's memory patch is considered vanilla, as it was specifically coded for Windows 9x.

Paste and go in browser, download takes a while to initiate. http://archive.org/download/Firefox_Legacy_Collector_Dump/legacycollector.org.tar/srv/www/legacycollector/public_html/firefox-addons/748/greasemonkey-0.9.22.1-signed.xpi

Hi 173a. Didn't see a comment on the condition of the Windows 98 CD. Under good lighting, any dust, dirt or damage? Can you hear the CD-ROM keep spinning up, like it's trying to read data but can't get a fix?