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@roytam1: Weird that it works for you and @Skorpios but not me. Serpent 55 always brings up the captcha for me, left-click or right-click, and then doesn't pass the challenge. Maybe it is the user agent that Cloudflare is balking at, as @AstroSkipper suggested earlier.
R3dfox also brought up the captcha, but I just pasted the URL, so there wouldn't have been a referer. That's probably why. (I know "referer" isn't the correct spelling, but it's how Mozilla spells it.) Bringing up MSFN in R3dfox, signing in, browsing to this thread, and then clicking one of the links might have worked, but I just wanted to get the file. R3dfox passed the challenge of course.
Since my wget batch file is working again, it doesn't really matter to me now.
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@VistaLover's suggestion worked
My .bat file has been repaired!
@AstroSkipper, I didn't say I had a static IP address. I said "I don't really have an option to change my IP address though." Well, that wasn't entirely correct. I do have such an option: power-cycle the router, so it negotiates a new IP address with my ISP. This, of course, would disconnect all devices in the home, so it's not really practical unless I do it in the middle of the night.
The IP address Cloudflare sees is, of course, my home network's external IP address, negotiated between the router and ISP. Changing the internal address my PC is using with the router would make no difference to Cloudflare whatsoever. Luckily it's now clear that such a thing isn't necessary anyhow.
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@Skorpios, no; I didn't think that a right-click followed by "Save Link As" would lead to different results than a left-click, which invokes the captcha. I guess XP users have a way to download the latest version after all. Edit: Just tried it. Right-click and "Save Link As" didn't work for me. I got a 6 kB file. Maybe it's that "referer" Roytam mentioned, but....
@roytam1, all my "referer" prefs in Serpent 55 are at their defaults. A standard left-click on the link brought up the captcha.
I haven't yet tried the right-click and "Save Link As."@AstroSkipper, perhaps telling wget to use a Firefox UA along with Roytam's "referer" suggestion might do the trick. I don't really have an option to change my IP address though. I just couldn't imagine Cloudflare leaving such a gaping security hole!
@VistaLover, check this out: https://blog.includesecurity.com/2026/06/the-smart-tv-in-your-livingroom-is-a-node-in-the-aiscraping-economy/
Sneaky devils! I don't (and as long as I can get away with it, won't) own a "smart" TV, but I do own a Roku streaming box. I wonder if any of its "apps" are letting folks use my Internet bandwidth without my knowledge.
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I just got bitten by this thing.
Normally, when you log in the site sets a cookie that will keep you logged in. As long as you connect often enough, you never have to log back in again.
But I guess I went too long, so I had to log in again. Problem is, my browser remembered my user name, not my email address. (That's how long it had been since I logged in last.) And I couldn't remember which email address I had used when I originally signed up! So I was forced to just guess.
Luckily, I guessed right (or you wouldn't be seeing this post). But that's a problem. I've had several email addresses over the years and some of them aren't even valid any more. Mutemail.com went belly-up and clear.com got bought out and shut down by Sprint (before Sprint themselves got bought out and shut down by T-Mobile).
From the above, I take it the change was made to deal with spam (although I'm not clear how it helps with that, but evidently it does). But there needs to be a way to deal with forgotten email addresses. Perhaps a page where you can enter your user ID, password, and your current email address (maybe with a captcha), and get your old email address emailed back to you, or a link to reset it to the current one. Otherwise you're stuck creating a brand-new account and losing all your settings.
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I'm back. R3dfox worked, but good grief. I had to click the stupid "I am human" box. No more automated downloads.
What really bites is that I had a nice .bat file that would automatically download the list of files from the appropriate directory at o.rthost.win, find the newest, automatically download that file, back up the old version, extract the new one, and apply all my browser customizations, all with just a few keystrokes. Now that's all been thrown out the window!
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Ultimate irony: the Cloudflare security checks block me from downloading Serpent with wget any more. I just get "403 Forbidden."
Nor can I even use an old Serpent version to download the newest version! Apparently I'll have to use R3dfox to download Serpent now...?
At least I'm on Win 7 and can use R3dfox, but what's an XP user to do now?
Have I mentioned lately how much I hate AI? Not because I don't find it useful, but because everybody and their God damned dog is trying to scrape the entire World Wide Web to train their damned AI, necessitating all these damned security checks.
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Re: Forcibly reinstalling uBO, I agree with NHTPG. Unfortunately the author appears to have missed the point:
QuoteI'd rather the average user have uBlock Origin by default rather than going without it. It's also convenient in testing because I don't have to go and grab it when I want to test something and not deal with 5000 ads.
Librewolf moved to the new policies.json layout, and if I were to revert back, the method to enable it in private mode was complex, and liable to break in newer browser versions. Librewolf doesn't use the old method anymore, so if it broke, I'd be on my own. So i just followed what they did.
The average user should always browse with an ad blocker, and if you wish to test without it, you can remove it from policies.json.
Re: the first point, I would too! On today's Internet, I'd never browse without an ad blocker, and uBO is the best IMO. But there's a difference between installing uBO by default, and reinstalling it if the user intentionally uninstalls it, effectively making it an unavoidable part of the browser!
I don't think the author fully appreciates the gravity of forcibly installing a third-party's add-on, no matter how good that third party may currently be. What if some hypothetical company (which I'll call "Poogle") makes gorhill an offer he can't refuse to exempt Poogle ads from being blocked by uBO? Or what if gorhill gets hit by a truck, and his heirs aren't software developers, have no interest in continuing uBO development, and just sell it to Poogle outright?
(As for having uBO always available when testing, the author could add it to his own policies.json; that doesn't mean it has to be in the distribution for everyone.)
As to the second point, editing a .json file is a bit beyond the ability of the average user. There needs to be a way for non-techies to do this.
But in any case, it appears the author has no intention of addressing this issue.
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On 2/18/2026 at 11:24 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:
Last November, Cloudflare would infinite loop when I was on a browser version *only* TWO versions
"old""prior".
Infinite loop in Official Chrome v136 and in Official Chromium v136. Only way to get past Cloudflare was to upgrade to v138 (but updated to v140 for other reasons).And just last month, this site would also Cloudflare infinite loop when I was on a browser *only* THREE versions
"old""prior".
Infinite loop in Official Chrome v140 and in Official Chromium v140. Only way to get past Cloudflare was to upgrade to v143.Conspiracy theory (meaning, don't take this seriously): Google has a secret agreement with CloudFlare to force users to update to the latest Chrome by breaking older browser versions as soon as Google releases newer ones. Happens to affect Chromium too, but most users are on official Chrome or ChrEdge.
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On 9/21/2025 at 10:47 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:
No offense, but people that spell Microsoft this way are OFTEN hypocrites. But I shall refrain into explaining why I believe this to be true 80-plus percent of the time and NOTHING more than a personification of "have versus have not".
This is NOTHING against Mathwiz but more of a GENERALIZATION to "open the eyes" of anybody that has ever spelled Microsoft in this fashion.
Sorry, just my "two cents"... ie, 2% of that $ used in said spelling...
To each their own, of course.
I understand you weren't addressing me specifically, and your general observations may well be correct. Yet, I think it's rather telling of a person's character when they let something little like "Micro$oft" get them riled up.
To be clear, I use many Micro$oft products, and I actually like some of them! But I haven't found much to like in Windows versions beyond 7 (well, 8.1 wasn't too bad). Unfortunately, neither 7 nor 8.1 is supported any longer. I have no problem with that - few companies can afford to support decades-old products - but M$'s business model depends on them not giving me the choice to remain on an unsupported OS, even though I knowingly accept any security risks from doing so. Thus, I choose both to visit sites like MSFN, in order to keep Win 7 going; and to mildly protest M$'s attempts to force me to pay them for an OS I strongly dislike, with that little dollar sign.
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20 hours ago, VistaLover said:
Thanks. I actually thought it might have something to do with the fact that the initialism ICU, when read in English, sounds like the sentence "I see you!"
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On 12/24/2025 at 10:11 AM, roytam1 said:
You may delete file named icudt*.dat and icu63.dll inside program folder when updating from old releases.
What is "ICU" anyway?
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On 12/19/2025 at 2:33 AM, RamonUn said:
I was able to login in with OAth2 using MailNews with an outlook account.
I had to go in the config editor and set *general.useragent.compatMode.firefox* to true. Then the Microsoft login page displayed properly and worked.
Hope it helps some folks, I am using windows server 2003
Finally! It was so simple too. Just change the UA and it works! I could've used this years ago!
Unfortunately it comes too late for me. My workplace has a new "security" admin who refuses to authorize any app other than M$ Outlook. (Well, he did relent and authorize GMail for phones.) MailNews looks like Mozilla Thunderbird. Thunderbird is perfectly fine from a security standpoint, but he's not going to unblock it because "why do I need to use another email client besides Outlook?" Still, it's nice to know that it's at least possible on XP again.
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On 11/16/2025 at 9:47 AM, Goodwin said:
it works, but I specifically wrote
. Because I know how inconvenient moon-tester-tool works. I didn't know about serpent-tester-tool though. But it's silly to use such crutches when you can remove the nonsense with checks.
@roytam1 already told you no:
On 11/10/2025 at 3:18 AM, roytam1 said:removing ID check means inappropriate extensions that can break browser hard can be installed. so I can't let this option [be] available.
... so, given that response, I was only trying to help. I'm sorry if you find it too "inconvenient," but you have a workaround now. And you only need to inconvenience yourself once for each add-on you install.
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I just stumbled upon a curious issue with R3dfox ESR. I tried to update from R3dfox 139 to R3dfox ESR 140, and none of my profile settings were migrated! It was as if I was starting over with a clean profile.
A little investigation revealed the R3dfox ESR profiles were in a different directory: "R3dfox ESR" instead of merely "R3dfox." So my old profile was still there; R3dfox ESR just uses a different profile directory.
OK, I thought, I'll copy my old profile to the new "R3dfox ESR" directory and switch to it with the profile manager. But when I tried to "create profile" and browse to the copied profile directory, it acted as though it wasn't even there! All it would show me was the new, clean profile it had created for me. The copy of my old profile was definitely there, but R3dfox ESR wouldn't show it. I was forced to give up and install a regular "R3dfox" version (I picked 142 for now). This did work and all my bookmarks, passwords, add-ons, and the like came back. But WTF? Why can't I migrate a R3dfox profile to R3dfox ESR? Is this a new Mozilla thing or an Eclipse thing? Weird!
Another anomaly was that R3dfox ESR offered to migrate my settings, but not from MS Edge, as "regular" R3dfox had done; rather, from Internet Explorer! What good is that? I haven't used MSIE in years and years! I don't use Edge any more but it's still installed.
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On 11/12/2025 at 12:05 PM, VistaLover said:
And my own words on DRM/EME:
I found r3dfox maintainer's "obsession" about DRM simply "blown out of proportion"; he goes to extreme lengths to disable EME at buildtime, but the browser itself provides an easy way to disable EME at runtime, if one objects to it for whatever ideological reason...
Let's face it; with Google practically owning the Web, they have leveraged the use of their own CDM (Widevine) in most media services, even the most obscure, but still free, ones... Yes, I totally understand the argument about "black-boxed code" etc., but DRM has become a necessary evil in the web era of 2025 and beyond...
A lot of focus has been put on the VMP (Verified Media Path) requirement associated with the majority of the prominent/commercial DRM'ed Video+Audio services (e.g. Netflix, Disney+, Paramount+, Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music, etc.) as a reason NOT to implement DRM on r3dfox (because VMP entails a very large sum of money, paid to Google, for certifying the browser for VMP purposes), but what about the rest of the lesser known services that don't impose VMP with DRM? Jody's example of
is such a case, there are many others...
The whole thing kind of reminds me, in some twisted way, of Moonchild and his own browser, Pale Moon, where he vehemently refused to implement DRM of any kind; but while Basilisk was still his, he allowed the DRM functionality inherited from his FxESR-52 forkpoint to stay enabled; that is, until the point he could no longer shoehorn-in upstream (Mozilla) DRM patches and, one day, DRM in Basilisk was declared such a big Evil that had to be completely excised!
(NB: Latest Widevine CDM (a .dll) needs Win8+ to properly function; on Vista/Win7, some wrapper DLLs (e.g. borrowed from the Supermium project
) are actually needed to make it work there (and only on non-VMP services)).
Once again, learning a lot!
I don't use R3dFox to watch DRM comment, so I didn't even realize R3dfox had disabled DRM. As you say, shades of Pale Moon. All the niche browsers combined aren't going to force YouTube et al. to abandon it!
And I agree that the correct way to deal with the issue is to leave the DRM supporting code in the browser, and just disable it with a pref, which can then be re-enabled by the user if desired.
Finally, I do consider VMP evil, and understand that niche browsers like R3dFox will never support VMP. But as long as there are sites that impose DRM but don't require VMP, we should still be allowed to access those sites.
All that said, though, I still appreciate having R3dFox on my "ancient" Win 7 PC and will keep using it for the ever-increasing number of Web sites that flummox Serpent.
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On 10/20/2025 at 2:55 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:
Retail markets encourage cash by charging HIGHER for non-cash.
Many US retailers do indeed offer a small discount for cash, to cover credit card processing fees. But transactions of thousands of dollars (to cover the cost of, say, a PC) are still quite rare, and that's what I meant by "large." The cost of a smart phone is probably "on the bubble:" large enough to be uncommon, but not impractical, and I do know of smart phone retailers who prefer cash.
On 10/20/2025 at 3:24 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:The $600 always paid "under the table". Apparently it's some IRS Tax Loophole.
AIUI that's correct. Income of $600 or less (works out to $50/month) from any one payer need not be reported. (Disclaimer: I am not a tax attorney; this is just my understanding - and you're still supposed to pay taxes even on income that wasn't reported!) But if your "friend of a friend" is replacing a roof for $600 labor, I'd say he'd be better off charging the going rate, or just under, and paying the tax!
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On 10/30/2025 at 6:32 AM, modnar said:
I changed pref. dom.ipc.processCount from default 1 to 4 (no multi-process enabled for now, browser.tabs.remote.autostart: false).
Is it just my imagination, or do websites load better and Serpent 52.9 uses memory less wastefully and actually recovers it after closing memory-hog sites?
I can't imagine that pref. doing anything at all if multiprocess move is disabled, so I strongly suspect either it is your imagination, or else you do actually have multiprocess mode enabled. The pref. you cited is not the only way to enable it:
QuoteYou can force "multiprocess mode" (aka "e10s") in ... @roytam1's Serpent 52 and 55 by creating the Boolean preference browser.tabs.remote.force-enable and setting it to true. This splits ... Serpent into two processes.
To allow more than two, set dom.ipc.processCount to a value greater than one (i.e., setting it to 2 allows 3 processes, etc.)
...
[W]ith ... some other FF forks on XP (confirmed with Serpent 55), you can instead ... toggle browser.tabs.remote.autostart from false to true, and if necessary (due to add-ons flagged as incompatible with e10s), toggle extensions.e10sBlocksEnabling from true to false.
You can check whether multiprocess mode is, in fact, enabled by clicking Help / Troubleshooting and scrolling down to "Multiprocess Windows." If the first number is anything but zero, it's enabled.
On 11/10/2025 at 10:05 PM, Goodwin said:Then make it so that extensions made for palemoon can be installed without questions in all your browsers, with any min/max version. Extensions from realityripple.com, addons.palemoon.org. Or make an extension that disables checking.
Already done: https://github.com/JustOff/moon-tester-tool (by the author of the Classic Add-Ons Archive himself) and https://github.com/Nebula-Mechanica/serpent-tester-tool. But to be fair, these extensions are themselves several years old, so they probably need to be updated. ... Any volunteers? @AstroSkipper?
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On 10/5/2025 at 9:26 PM, roytam1 said:
change user agent compatibility to firefox compatibility in preferences dialog.
On 10/6/2025 at 2:07 AM, raddy said:Thanks, but firefox/128.0 it's a very heavy for wnxp-compatibile computers. I set compatibility to native and add override
I agree - some Web sites work better if you report an older FF version than the default (128), as long as it's not too old. You may need to experiment with a Web site to find the "best lie" to tell it.
On 10/7/2025 at 7:51 AM, Joseph_sw said:YouTube's comments history & live chat,
both claim NM28 to be "unsupported browser", which obviously misinformation / false claim by Google, because both of it would work if I simply override the user-agent .
To be fair to YouTube, I doubt they test with Pale Moon (let alone New Moon), so they probably don't know it works!
On 10/11/2025 at 5:24 AM, adata said:x.com website has a problem.
https://x.com/account/access
It doesn't pass verification,
constant looping checking if I'm human and script errors
Others also report this problem to the competing Mypal browser
https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal68/issues/638#issuecomment-3285936356The script runs slowly on New Moon/Serpent/MyPal, especially if you have an older PC; so the browsers time out waiting for it to finish, and give you that dialog. I'd try clicking "Don't ask me again" then clicking "Continue." You'll probably need to be patient waiting for the script to complete, and it still may not work. But at least you'll give it a chance!
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On 9/30/2025 at 7:28 PM, VistaLover said:
And you can't buy here something that is over €500 worth with just plain cash (in one go) - you can probably still pay for the first €500 with banknotes, the rest has to be paid with some other "money" form...
All those "anti-cash" measures have been put in place to combat so called "black money" ; cash is anonymous, while any other accepted form of payment isn't; just like in the Internet, "privacy" is a thing of the distant past
...
Want to buy a new and shiny PC/laptop? Better have your bank card with you
That is interesting, VL. I always learn something from your posts!
Here in the US, cash transactions aren't quite so discouraged (thank goodness for privacy), but large cash transactions are nonetheless quite rare. Given the risk of theft or loss, I'd probably never plunk down $2000 cash for a new PC even if I had a money tree! I'd pluck those notes and deposit them in my bank account as fast as they grew....
I guess, for Eurozone residents craving privacy, there's still cryptocurrency, but that has its own headaches.
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On 9/29/2025 at 7:52 PM, EliraFriesnan said:
Some 100 won't do. It'd be right if you said some 500 Euro notes.
The English word "some" is not limited to "fewer than ten," as you appear to insist on believing. As with most words in most languages, its meaning depends on context. I already made the point that "some" is not synonymous with "a few," but you omitted that part of my post when you quoted me.
If one could pluck notes from a money tree as easily as leaves from an actual tree, it would be quite easy to pluck a dozen, or even a score, of them, don't you think?
I find this argument absurd, tiresome, and pointless. You are hereby ignored.
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On 9/22/2025 at 4:22 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:
Not the folks that I know. They live paycheck to paycheck, not a dime in savings, but can't keep a phone more than a mere six months or so without cracking it. They upgrade OFTEN, *very* often, not because they can "afford to", but because they eventually get tired of the cracked screen that their NEGLIGENCE added to the phone they do have.
Accidents happen, but cell phone insurance and repair shops exist, so I'd say that if you're (a) so chronically careless with your phones that you're repeatedly breaking their screens, and (b) using that as an excuse to buy a new phone rather than getting your old one repaired, methinks you really wanted a new phone all along. So evidently, they can afford a new phone after all (or at least, they think they can).
On 9/26/2025 at 2:59 PM, Jonathan-nighthawk said:I know that some peoples have a "psychosis" that make them change their devices each time one new pops out, but i just cannot understand them.
I think I figured it out, at least in the US. Here, new phones are often sold locked to a service provider, and paid for over a 2 to 3 year period. So instead of having to shell out (say) $1200 for a new phone, it's $40/mo for 30 months on top of the cost for cell service. Once you're used to that scheme, it's tempting to just get a new phone and sell the old one once it's paid off, rather than keeping the old one and pocketing the $40/mo savings. Also, both Apple and Google make it easy to upgrade without losing apps, data, etc. (at least, as long as you don't want to switch between those two platforms!)
I suspect those factors go a long way toward explaining why we Americans are so willing to throw away good phones every few years. But they don't apply to PCs, even despite the "Androidification" of Windows since Windows 10. It's still painful and expensive to move to a newer PC, still arrogant of anyone to suggest that those dealing with artificial blocks on older Web browsers should just "buy a new PC" (to get back to the original topic), and so there's still a reason for sites like MSFN and developers like @K4sum1 to keep working on projects like R3dfox for older PCs that run older OSes like Windows Vista or 7.
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8 hours ago, EliraFriesnan said:
100 Euro is nowhere near the price of even a budget PC from dealers. It's more like 2000 Euro.
I wasn't misleading anyone. I said "pluck some 100 Euro notes", not pluck ONE 100 Euro note," or even "pluck a few 100 Euro notes!" We're all well aware that the cost of a modern PC is more than a few 100-Euro notes. I figured the reader would know how many notes would have to be plucked!
But quibbles over adjectives aside, I think we actually agree! My whole point was that there's no such thing as a money tree! Most of us actually have to work quite hard to earn enough money to buy a modern PC; thus it was quite arrogant for someone to respond to a complaint about a Web site being deliberately blocked from working on an older PC with "just go out and buy a new one," as if that were a trivial thing for anyone to do!
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11 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:
We live in a world where everybody above the age of SIXTEEN or so (except me, I do not own a mobile phone!) will "upgrade" their PHONE every two to three and a half years, IF NOT MORE FREQUENTLY!
Not me. I've never understood that. I'm still using a 10-year old 4G phone. People like you describe act as if they actually have money trees, throwing away an over-$1000 piece of equipment every 2-3 years just because there's an even more expensive version out!
11 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:Seriously, why in *H#LL* should we, the consumer, "demand" a web site function on a PC that is MORE THAN FOUR OR FIVE TIMES OLD when the owner of that web site KNOWS D#MN WELL that the consumer ALSO OWNS A PHONE ???
Because that's how the World Wide Web was designed to work, that's why! The original idea behind HTML was that, no matter how many fancy bells and whistles were added later on, a Web page should still look the same to folks using a browser that didn't support the new bells and whistles. The page may be slow and look like one of those ugly pages from the '80's, but it's still supposed to work. (And for the most part, the WWW really did work that way for its first couple of decades.) I know we got away from that ideal long ago, but I still think it's an ideal worth striving for, rather than Discourse (or whoever) shutting you out of their sites completely because your browser/OS doesn't support all the HTML features they think they might want to use someday.
Someone once told me there's a difference between dealing with organic change like the shifting seasons, and the change forced on you by someone who is whipping you forward like a drover, toward a destination of their choosing, not yours.
On 9/4/2025 at 11:31 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:I haven't wasted time altering a UA string for almost TWO YEARS.
Sure, they often times still work, but that is OLD SCHOOL and we (all) should be learning the NEW SCHOOL methods and not hold ourselves back by not looking outside that old-school-box.
You misunderstand the situation. We don't get to choose whether to use "old school" or "new school" methods! If the Web designer used the "old school" method of sniffing the UA (e.g., chase.com), then we have to use the corresponding "old school" method of spoofing the UA just to get in! Of course, we often have to use "new school" methods as well, like those built into a Web browser like R3dfox or Supermium, or the site will likely not work well (see above) but that doesn't mean we can ignore UA spoofing just because it's considered "old school."
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On 9/4/2025 at 12:53 PM, Jonathan-nighthawk said:
basically, something that none want, none use, none care, and appear is added just for cause problems to the users that don't want (or that cannot, for various reasons) switch to a different browser (that in almost all the cases means change also OS, and in most of these cases also change their machines)
I'd estimate that upwards of 75% of new CSS and Javascript features fall into that category.
On 9/4/2025 at 12:53 PM, Jonathan-nighthawk said:i posted on their main site remarking this, and the reply was "just buy a new PC"
I wish I could say "unbelievable," but the arrogance of some folks is totally believable. Just go out to your money tree and pluck off some 100 Euro (or whatever your local currency is) notes, and hand them to your local PC dealer. Doesn't everyone have a money tree?
And even if you're willing to spend the money, does anyone have any idea how much work goes into making your PC, well, personal? No, they want you to just throw that old PC in the rubbish and start customizing your new PC from scratch - with a new OS version that removes support for much of the personalization that Win 7 lets us do. You will have the Win 10/11 "look" whether you like it or not! Because Micro$oft says so!
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My Browser Builds (Part 6)
in Browsers working on Older NT-Family OSes
Posted
I have AT&T fiber. My router is built into the fiber interface provided by AT&T. It is rather "locked down." I can't even block unwanted DNS lookups at the router, nor can I reroute DNS requests to another device, such as my Raspberry Pi (for, say, Pi-Hole). That sort of thing has to be done by configuring each connected device individually.
You're welcome to prove me wrong but I doubt there's a way to force this router to obtain a new external IP address by running a script on a connected device.