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Windows 98se on a new laptop


janus zeal

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My girlfriend has this laptop. right now it has windows xp pro sp2 on it. im wondering if installing windows 98 would be a good idea.

basic specs for people that dont want to load the link.

cpu: dual core 1.6 ghz

ram: 1 gb ddr2

hdd: sata, 100 gb

dvd-ram drive

wifi

bluetooth

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Windows 98 will not take full advantage of the hardware on the laptop. 98 is designed for single core laptops. So even if you do get 98 installed on the laptop it will only use on of the cores on the dual core proccessor. I don't remember but I thought windows 98 had problems with systems with a gig or more of ram. I could be wrong though. To be honest It would basically be a waste of time to use 98 unless you really need an application that will not run on xp.

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Yeah, one thing I learned about laptops is that unless you use the OS that came with your computer, you WILL have some weird issues. I tried win2k pro on my year old hp laptop which was "designed" for winxp and 2k. I can't even get a proper chipset driver for it and the cpu heatsink fan runs at FULL speed all the time for no reason at all. I also had a POS Dell in 2002... I installed 2k and it crashed half the time... I installed 98SE and suddenly the DVD-ROM drive was no more :(

It's 2006 now... if anyone wants to continue using 98se on highend computers (like me, hehe) then I suggest you build your own desktop. That is the only guarenteed method for stability, compatibility and quality in my opinion. If you want a 98SE compatible laptop, do what I was doing: scope out eBay.

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98se should run fine on that machine, provided you have the necessary drivers.

Hard drive < 128Gb, no problem there.

1Gb of RAM, certainly alright (after VCACHE adjustment).

Dual core, 98se won't use one but it doesn't need two cores to run well anyway :D

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98se should run fine on that machine, provided you have the necessary drivers.

Hard drive < 128Gb, no problem there.

1Gb of RAM, certainly alright (after VCACHE adjustment).

Dual core, 98se won't use one but it doesn't need two cores to run well anyway :D

you sure about the hard drive? i read that sata drives cause alot of problems in 98...

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As LLXX knows, the discussion here is a bit ignorant; please read the 98SE Service Pack subforum for a comprehensive answer to this discussion. Here's a few things:

1) You need a maintenance system for XP, Vista, or whatever incomplete M$ system you choose to run. Laugh all you want while reading this, unless you are one of the more knowledgeable who likely have learned first hand when XP crashed and burned and you needed a maintenance system to bail you out [an ever-enlargening group).

2) The best defragger for your machine is from WinME. It runs on Win95, Win98 (First Edition, the one from Nov 1997), Win98 (Second edition, the one from Apr 1999), and WinME. It runs anywhere from 10-100 times as fast as anything you can run on XP, regardless of price. Compare to the built-in XP defragger which cannot a ) do more than one drive at a time, b ) Is ludicrously slow, c) cannot be scheduled so you have to be there to start it, end it, and if multiple drives start each driver's defrag. We recommend 98SE to run this from.

3) Show me a system as stable as 98SE as modified by the Unofficial Service Pack project we have on the sub-forum. M$ allows everyone to run systems with literally hundreds of known bugs unfixed. 98SE was no exception, except that now that is no longer the case.

4) 98SE cannot be virused to the point that it itself is incapable of noticing the malware contamination. XP and eventually Vista cannot make that claim. I have had too many personal experiences with XP virused such that with every tool at my disposal, XP claimed to be malware free, yet booting to a 98SE maintenance system on the same hardware, a trivial on-line free scan showed kernel contamination [such as in SVCHOST.EXE] that uses all of the system's protection mechanisms to protect the virus from detection and eradication. Another Vista/XP/2000 system could have been equally contaminated, thus these are not good candidates for maintenance systems; 98SE cannot get in so deep without either noticing something is wrong or being revealed to have invaders that show up with available anti-malware tools.

5) 98SE supports large disks, but may need to be properly configured. As a practical matter, maximum partition size is limited to 137 GB per partition, NOT overall hard disk size. There is support for SATA, but it depends on your hardware as to whether it's compatible or not. In the case of BIOS-compatible SATA, this is supposed to be a non-issue, else admittedly it becomes an issue of driver availability.

Pretty much if you can boot to an original XP CD on your laptop, 98SE can handle it. Some hardware needs a diskette containing a system driver expressly for that hardware. If so, you may be SOL with regard to 98SE, but it depends on the third-party who provides the drivers, not a 98SE issue per se.

6) For some applications, the second core of a dual-core system is ignored even within XP, other than you might hope that an application is aware of the second core and claims it as its own. Admittedly the world of apps is split on this point, and 98SE always loses if XP should win. That said, a lot of applications run faster on 98SE. YMMV of course.

So, yes, run XP if you need to, but don't delude this into a panacea, since clearly it isn't one. None of us want to run maintenance systems, but all of us need them. Not a matter of if, but of merely when.

cjl (noted and acknowledged contributor to the Unofficial Service Pack for 98SE; by no means the largest)

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On all my systems i have 98se, even my p4. Normally i always pick 98se (with the service pack) over xp, however, i was wondering if it would be a good idea to install it on her laptop because of the dual core cpu, and the sata drive.

Beleve me, i know exactly how "secure" xp and vista are. thus my running 98. ive had quite a few times where if i didnt have another computer handy to fix a problem with an xp system, i would be screwed. (sorry)

Im going to create a drive image of her current system, then install 98se. i doubt anything will go wrong, but if it does i will have the original disk image.

lol, that being said, does anyone know a good, free disk imageing tool?

[edit]

something i havent thought of. my girlfriend is hughly obsessed with the sims 2. the sims 2 clams to not run on windows 98. is there some way i can make it run?

Edited by janus zeal
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Dunno about SIMS 2 other than obnoxious check for O/S superfluously is a spreading disease. Here's a potential fix for the entire problem:

Install the game on XP as it desires to. Preferably use MicroHelp Uninstaller monitor [since bought out by CyberMedia and then Mcafee; same product, different corporate logo] since that is better than Uninstaller guessing after-the-fact.

Use the uninstaller to uninstall the app; this makes a .ZIP file [with an alternate extension, but it is actually .zip compatible] containing the essence of what was installed. Use the "transport" option when doing this.

Then take the whole mess to the 98SE system and run the "install" of the transported application. [The "install" is just a script that puts into the system each and every item, file, .dll, registry setting, etc. that was noticed by the uninstalation, especially accurately if installation monitor was running at the time, but even after-the-fact, it's a good guesser.]

This should make it run if possible on the descendent system.

A couple of tips:

1) It may be necessary to install it on a system with the same system drive volume letter as it was installed on originally. Remember that when dual-booting or substituting 98SE for XP. This is NOT a matter of being on Drive C:, as these days virtually nothing is drive-C: bound [perhaps some bad defaults in install software, but can be modified at install time, etc.], but is a matter of installing on the same system drive as was the first time around, etc.

If the app is clean, this shouldn't matter; the "transport" option knows what to do for well-behaved apps.

2) To prove you even have a ghost-of-a-chance to get it to work, since you don't know if it works on 98SE in the first place, try this first:

Install transport package on another XP system on that same hardware on the same drive [essentially an earlier backup of what you have now, except before the app was installed]. If the app works where it was never officially installed normally, this at least proves the transport package was completed correctly. Failing this test, attempt to sleuth out what went wrong with uninstaller that it didn't get all of the right pieces, etc. [sometimes a .DLL issue you can iron out first!] For the most part, this test passes easily if you used the installation monitor in the following manner:

1) Install XP virgin on the machine; no other apps.

2) Install Uninstaller; turn on installation monitor and reboot.

3) Install APP.

This makes the subsequent transport the smartest and avoids the most .DLL missing problems since no other app can interfere with the file placement process that the app was performing, etc.

In any case, the transported package doesn't check for O/S version and runs on Win95 and up. If the O/S features aren't relevant, it should run. Generally, O/S sabotege is in the original installation program, not the app inherently, etc.

Good luck!

cjl

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Well, thats good to know for other apps. i checked the sims website and it says windows 98 is supported. i guess i shouldnt just take peoples word for things~

what 'hacks' would you recomend for this system? besides the service pack of course.

edit: problem: i started installing windows 98se, while windows was "initializeing driver database" i got the BSOD. fatal exception 0e... etc... im going to try disableing every unneeded device in the bios...

could it be the 1024 MBs of ram?

edit: took out the ram and put in 256 mb, same problem

Edited by janus zeal
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About the BSOD, try forcing APM mode ( setup.exe /P:I ), it worked on my Dell laptop.

More info here.

Small correction, it's actually "setup.exe /P I".

I will try that if what im trying now doesnt work.

(installed windows in a VM, then copyed the files to the laptop... still copying...)

edit: didnt work, trying with /P I, if that doesnt work then i will try with /P A

edit: worked! idk why i didnt think of that, i was so worried it would be something worse, i didnt think of it being acpi >_<

now what 'unoffical' mods should i add to this to make it run better?

Edited by janus zeal
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You need to install the SP 2.1a. This is really important because there are a whole lot of laptop-specific 98 updates already in there, and all will get applied at once.

Then upgrade IE to at least IE 55 SP2 and all of its upgrades. At this point, there are some considerations:

The totally CLEAN way to run is IE 55 SP2 and all of its upgrades. You need to goto ERPMAN (erpdude8) site to get the collection, since some of them do not run "naturally" on 98SE, so he has posted some that have been "synthesized" to be 98/98SE-compatible.

Alternatively, you can upgrade (as MS advises) to IE 60 SP1 and all of its upgrades. [small note: As reported by Petr, you need to download the root certificates update in order for Windows Update to download this for you, should you choose the WU method of obtaining this, etc. I don't use WU ever, other than as a post-install check so it properly claims I need no updates, etc.]

If you go with IE 6 however, you then have to get two replacement files BROWSEUI.DLL and BROWSELC.DLL and move/replace them as defined in other threads. [They come from IE55SP2 and any update to same from Q867282 or a newer rollup that includes it. The LC file is in the original release; the UI version is in the update. Run the update executable on a command line with the /c option to enable self-unpack of the update instead of install, etc. Shut down to real MS-DOS mode to replace the files after first copying them to the \program files\Internet Explorer folder. The copy can be done from Windows, but the replacement only from real DOS.]

Replacing these files prevents 98SE from locking up badly. The problem is aggravated by lotsa file move/copy/delete/empty recycle bin etc., or large file same operations, or speed of CPU. So, unless all you use it for is to launch programs that don't save files, consider this mandatory.

So, take your pick; either way I don't advise staying with IE 5.0, which is the only version the SP 2.1a will update. IE 55SP2 is the best version prior to 6 and avoids the lock-up problems; IE 6.0 SP1 is the best post-55 version and the two-file fix remedies 99% of the problem. [Note: An alarming trend: Many programs such as free on-line anti-malware scanners are starting to require IE 6.0 or higher, not just IE!! A notable breath of fresh air is Trend Micro Housecall version 6.5, which allows you to dump IE entirely by specifying a Sun Java-based version by default, so all you need is Netscape/Mozilla/FireFox/Opera, etc.]

Depending on your other needs, there's a bunch of MSXML and MDAC updates available [see MGDX site for details]; WU will demand you install a little bit of that typically.

Generally important to get the latest [for 98SE!] drivers for your machine. Recommend you install them before doing anything else. If this is a ThinkPad, you can get a laundry list of what is available by placing the model number in at the website, etc. Many are generic to most ThinkPads, but some are always model-specific. Other vendors have similar, but generally less-well organized, etc.

The rest is up to you, but no different from any other machine in terms of AV/spyware protection, utilities, etc. You should get the ME scanfrag package for those two gems that run on 95, 98, 98SE as well as ME.

cjl

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